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We all experience it in one form or another, Hate. Wheather small or large Hate is found in many disguises such as tolerance, political corretness, simple disagreements. We share the Word and we are labeled Haters. We share the Word and we are called intolerant. We share the Word and we are called many hateful names. You know Jesus warned us this and we experience it everyday. "Go and sin no more" we proclaim and in responce we are told "Judge ye not".
I try very hard to share the Word without my personal opinion but it is hard because many want to question my motif so I give my opinion and the I am attacked for my opinion.
Read the words of Christ, you know the red lettered word in your Bible and see just how torerant Jesus was. You may be surprised at just how intolerant He was and is. Before you attack, know the words of Christ because you are not attacking the person but Christ.
Robin the account of the woman caught in adultery is utterly amazing in regards of the heart of God towards the worst of us, and yet there are many like yourself, that would disregard this and major on "go sin no more".
So Robin please tell me why you would do this ?, especially in the light that Jesus said, "he that is without sin let him cast the first stone".
This "Go sin no more", is taken completely out of context, if Jesus said this to each one of us when we first believed(i'm talking about the out of context explaination), we would live in condemnation for the rest of our lives, because we have all sinned after being shown mercy and forgiveness
.I also believe this account is a classic example of the wonderful truth of Romans 2 verse 4, that it's the goodness of God that leads a man to repentance. When Jesus said to her "neither do i condemn you, this is the goodness of God in reality leading us to repentance.
Kevin Prosch in one of his songs said , "you didn't condemn me, say i gave myself up", i am pretty sure this was the experience of this woman who was caught in adultery.
I also think we are fooling ourselves if we think we are suffering for Christ, if we are rejected for a message that lacks the heart of God towards mankind.
Peace on earth and goodwill to all me. Do not be afraid for i bring you good news.
I can agree with much of what you have said but God is the originator of our emotions but not how we use them, you know the whole free will thing and the whole chidren thing. God is eternal and perfect while we, even the most intelligent and learned are still children. No matter how much we try to show ourselves as mature we fail. Jesus, being perfect, got angry and flipped the tables, He was bother by their lack of understanding several times. God has emotions but He also has compassion as He has shown numerous times by His patience and constant warnings of distruction or enslavement throughout the Bible. We are all children no matter our age or education.
Our animal nature is responsible for our negative emotions . . . God is responsible for our love and higher aspirations. God has only the positive emotions embodied in love. God has no negative emotions, period. But our negative emotions are so "natural" to us our ancestors could never have conceived of anyone not having them . . . (not even God). That is the ignorance of the veil that exists when reading the OT and trying to understand the motives and actions our ignorant ancestors attributed to God.
It is impossible to determine directly the motives behind any action . . . because we have no direct way of reading the mind behind it. Our ancestors used their own minds and motives as the explanations. That is why Jesus was necessary. He brought the mind of God to us in the "mind of Christ" to remove the veil of ignorance. Clearly, it has failed so far because the agendas of men for power and control intervened and retained the ancient ignorance . It has been maintained by rejecting knowledge and praising blind ignorance as a sign of faith. Those responsible for this blasphemy against the Holy Spirit of God and His Word Jesus the Christ have their reward in this life. I do not envy them their fate in the next.
Robin the account of the woman caught in adultery is utterly amazing in regards of the heart of God towards the worst of us, and yet there are many like yourself, that would disregard this and major on "go sin no more".
So Robin please tell me why you would do this ?, especially in the light that Jesus said, "he that is without sin let him cast the first stone".
This "Go sin no more", is taken completely out of context, if Jesus said this to each one of us when we first believed(i'm talking about the out of context explaination), we would live in condemnation for the rest of our lives, because we have all sinned after being shown mercy and forgiveness
.I also believe this account is a classic example of the wonderful truth of Romans 2 verse 4, that it's the goodness of God that leads a man to repentance. When Jesus said to her "neither do i condemn you, this is the goodness of God in reality leading us to repentance.
Kevin Prosch in one of his songs said , "you didn't condemn me, say i gave myself up", i am pretty sure this was the experience of this woman who was caught in adultery.
I also think we are fooling ourselves if we think we are suffering for Christ, if we are rejected for a message that lacks the heart of God towards mankind.
Peace on earth and goodwill to all me. Do not be afraid for i bring you good news.
Was she the worst of us or where the men who saught to stone her? Jesus words condemned the men who condemned the woman. Where was the man she was sinning with? Jesus knew her heart as well as the hearts of the men, He knew she was repenting and He told her right "Go and sin no more". We should lived condemned everyday that we do not repent because we sin everyday and need to take those sins to Christ. If we get into this habit of taking things to Christ, whether it is sin, pain, thanks, whatever it is we will seek Christ all the more and sin less. "Take up your cross daily" Is condemnation all you see in a select few of Christ words or can you see Him drawing us ever closer to Him when we understand and live His words?
Our animal nature is responsible for our negative emotions . . . God is responsible for our love and higher aspirations. God has only the positive emotions embodied in love. God has no negative emotions, period. But our negative emotions are so "natural" to us our ancestors could never have conceived of anyone not having them . . . (not even God). That is the ignorance of the veil that exists when reading the OT and trying to understand the motives and actions our ignorant ancestors attributed to God.
It is impossible to determine directly the motives behind any action . . . because we have no direct way of reading the mind behind it. Our ancestors used their own minds and motives as the explanations. That is why Jesus was necessary. He brought the mind of God to us in the "mind of Christ" to remove the veil of ignorance. Clearly, it has failed so far because the agendas of men for power and control intervened and retained the ancient ignorance . It has been maintained by rejecting knowledge and praising blind ignorance as a sign of faith. Those responsible for this blasphemy against the Holy Spirit of God and His Word Jesus the Christ have their reward in this life. I do not envy them their fate in the next.
I see what you are saying and can agree with much of it but what of when God says He expresses certain emotions like being angry with Moses, or Hating Esau?
I see what you are saying and can agree with much of it but what of when God says He expresses certain emotions like being angry with Moses, or Hating Esau?
If I may interject here....I believe that these are human emotions projected onto God. I think the writers were projecting their own emotions into the story and it had nothing to do with God. Just more of the ignorance of the OT folks. I don't believe that about God and neither should anyone else. The more I read the less it's significance because of the human aspect of it.
We all experience it in one form or another, Hate. Wheather small or large Hate is found in many disguises such as tolerance, political corretness, simple disagreements. We share the Word and we are labeled Haters. We share the Word and we are called intolerant. We share the Word and we are called many hateful names. You know Jesus warned us this and we experience it everyday. "Go and sin no more" we proclaim and in responce we are told "Judge ye not".
I try very hard to share the Word without my personal opinion but it is hard because many want to question my motif so I give my opinion and the I am attacked for my opinion.
Read the words of Christ, you know the red lettered word in your Bible and see just how torerant Jesus was. You may be surprised at just how intolerant He was and is.
You are right in your last statement; Jesus WAS tolerant- to a degree, and to many of the things that, today, WAY too many so called "Christians" are not. Jesus was never, ever afraid to speak his mind and share what he believed were the paths to ultimate spirituality and peace here on earth, but do keep in mind- he had a circle of FOLLOWERS who wanted to hear what he had to say. Which brings me to my next point...
I totally and completely respect you, and your opinions however they are, and whether or not they may differ from mine. And I especially am interested in hearing views that differ from mine, so long as they are presented fairly, logically, and in order that there is an EXCHANGE between BOTH of us- exchange being the operative word...which means we are both being heard by each other and offering points with reference to that which the other took time to share. Something that, as you know, doesn't always happen here, or elsewhere too.
The key is- opinions regarding religion/faith are great, if it is within such a situation or forum that sharing which is APPROPRIATE. What I, and many other people take serious issue with is when people- christians particularly (as this thread is referring to) take it upon themselves to preach and prod in an inappropriate, and unwelcome manner their views and beliefs, as if it is their "duty" to do so. That is rude, insensitive and just plain ignorant. So, while I would never "hate" anyone who does that simply because hate is far too strong a word, I have a great distaste and lack of respect for anyone who lacks the ability to respect me as a person, as well as respect for themselves enough to wait until either they are asked, or until an appropriate situation or type of discussion is opened to where their views/opinions can be shared politely. For instance, you *do* know that there are many christians who have no problem telling people to their face that they are going to hell, right? That is SO completely screwed up and obnoxious to the point of being ludicrous so, when some people say they "hate" christians- I guarantee these are the types that they're talking about. And can you blame them?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69
Before you attack, know the words of Christ because you are not attacking the person but Christ.
No, you are, and *should* be attacking the person, not jesus, because he has NOTHING to do with what anyone says or what anyone believes, he perhaps was an influence but he is not here to defend himself, nor can he validate what anyone says or does. Anyone who plays the whole "don't shoot the messenger" angle but is outwardly, and rudely preaching and 'spreading' what they think is THE truth without being invited/welcomed to do so is being disrespectful, not only to themselves but, especially, to Jesus. Yes, Jesus was pretty firm in instructing people to 'spread HIS word', yes. But the thing is- most people, christians especially, don't "get" his word, and even if they do, if they are not spreading it kindly, or justly as jesus would have, well...if there's anyone out there who doesn't already understand, then I can't possibly explain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
I think the best way to proceed is to follow Jesus commands:
Love God
Love your neighbor
Love your enemy
You know, LOVE: a.k.a. being patient, kind, forgiving, protecting, hoping, not delighting in evil, rejoicing in the truth, persevering, enduring, and not giving up.
And trust God that He can work things out.
Though I'm not a person of "faith" to where I'd place mine in the hands of god as perhaps you do, aside from that last sentence I'm with you all the way. You're talking in a way that would make jesus very proud.
[quote=RobinD69;16952458]Was she the worst of us or where the men who saught to stone her? Jesus words condemned the men who condemned the woman. Where was the man she was sinning with? Jesus knew her heart as well as the hearts of the men, He knew she was repenting and He told her right "Go and sin no more". We should lived condemned everyday that we do not repent because we sin everyday and need to take those sins to Christ. If we get into this habit of taking things to Christ, whether it is sin, pain, thanks, whatever it is we will seek Christ all the more and sin less. "Take up your cross daily" Is condemnation all you see in a select few of Christ words or can you see Him drawing us ever closer to Him when we understand and live His words?[/quote]
Robin it would appear that this is all you see discerning from your OP. God demonstrating is love to a person about to be stoned and he doesn't condemn her,like i said, you like many others don't see that , you see "go sin no more". I wonder why ?.
Regarding your comment who is the worst,I would say those who were going to stone her in their pride and ignorance of their own hearts are worse,but it does not hide the fact that adultery is considered a big sin by christians,just like homosexuality is.If it was a homosexual about to be stoned by the blind and boastful, Jesus would have said the same thing,"where are they that condemn you?.Jesus was clearly addressing the blindness and pride of those putting her down, to put it bluntly calling out religious folk for their hate speech and behavior.
He knew she was repenting when she was caught in the very act ?, that's streching it just a little Robin,do you actually believe it's possible for God to love us while we are sinners ?.Do you also understand that the knowledge of knowing God loved us while we were yet sinners is the good news,and this good news is the life changer and not, deciding to sin no more ?.
If I may interject here....I believe that these are human emotions projected onto God. I think the writers were projecting their own emotions into the story and it had nothing to do with God. Just more of the ignorance of the OT folks. I don't believe that about God and neither should anyone else. The more I read the less it's significance because of the human aspect of it.
You would have been a great Marcionite 1800 years ago, Ilene. Of course, you have been written off as a heretic and to some here, you might actually be considered as such. I'm just waiting for your other shoe to drop in time as you are half way there. I'll be right here waiting to see it.
You would have been a great Marcionite 1800 years ago, Ilene. Of course, you have been written off as a heretic and to some here, you might actually be considered as such. I'm just waiting for your other shoe to drop in time as you are half way there. I'll be right here waiting to see it.
Actually it is you who is being watched, Insane . . . it is always the most angry and bitter against the false religion(s) they were literally "persecuted" under (in the mildest sense) in their earlier life who are the most likely to recognize what they are actually rejecting. It is NOT really God you reject . . . it is the asinine, ridiculous, hateful, evil, awful, absurd, outrageous,etc. nonsense ABOUT God that is spewed out by benighted religious leaders throughout society. I'm watching you, Insane. Read my synthesis (or re-read it if you have already skimmed it).
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