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NO, the difference is UR people believe some can murder and go to Heaven without even asking Jesus to forgive them of their sins, and that is NOT Biblical. And yes when I stand before God He will say not guilty because my sins are under the blood of Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
NO, that is not what "UR people" believe (at least not this UR person).
Legoman and I agree and we are "UR" people, so consider that you are wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you believe that someone could accept and believe in Jesus and ask to be forgiven of their sins when they are 6 or 7 years old or so, grow up and murder someone and never repent of that murder, go to heaven, and be declared righteous? Yet you don't believe someone could never believe in Jesus, murder someone, be really remorseful for that, and Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection would be of no effect to him and he would be found guilty. If so, you believe one's own efforts saves them, not Jesus' sacrifice.
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 03-23-2011 at 09:37 PM..
There are some belief system that water down the salvation of Christ , but The Lord Jesus is witness of all salvation ... See in John 1: 33 John the Baptist said ....````He that sent me to baptize with water the same said to me; On who you will see the Spirit descending , and remaining on him , the same is he which baptize with the Holy Spirit``.......See Jesus is the witness of ALL salvation ....... in Revelations 12 :15-17 is the spirit that waters down the salvation and the witnesses of Jesus Christ ......``and the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the women , that might cause her to be carried away of the flood ... and the earth helped the women that the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth... and the dragon was wroth with the women and went to make war with the remnant of her seed . which keep the commandments of God and have a testimony of Jesus Christ``...... See antichrist lead many people to reason their way away from the truth that Jesus authored for people to believe and many religions of the world water down the salvation of Jesus Christ and remove him as the corner stone of their building beliefs systems rejected ....... Why do these Belief systems reject the truth and reject Jesus Christ call to obey him and love him for their salvation , They reject the author ship of Jesus christ because the author of these religions are not of the sheep of the shepard Lord Jesus but of another gospel that will not hold up with the Lord , because these of these other gospels do not hear the voice of the shepard Jesus Christ
Legoman and I agree and we are "UR" people, so consider that you are wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you believe that someone could accept and believe in Jesus and ask to be forgiven of their sins when they are 6 or 7 years old or so, grow up and murder someone and never repent of that murder, go to heaven, and be declared righteous? Yet you don't believe someone could never believe in Jesus, murder someone, be really remorseful for that, and Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection would be of no effect to him and he would be found guilty. If so, you believe one's own efforts saves them, not Jesus' sacrifice.
To say that Christians can lose their salvation is to say that the blood of Christ was inadequate to perfect for all time those whom God has sanctified.
1 John 5:13-15
John 10:27-30
Romans 8:28-39
Hebrews 9:12
Hebrews 10:10
John 5:24
Last edited by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA; 03-24-2011 at 07:48 PM..
And now I am confused as to what exactly then is your point? Because you believe exactly the same thing! Namely that a murderer can be saved.
Hypocrisy much? Unless I am misunderstanding you, it seems you are effectively saying: "UR is wrong because it means a murderer can be saved. By the way I believe a murderer can be saved."
I simply pointed out that Universalists don't know the logical conclusion of their beliefs. They deny that murderers can go to heaven while saying that all men will be saved. I pointed out the believers can commit murder or any other sin and they will still go to heaven. Eternal security. And if I didn't say it in the other posts, Universalism is a heresy.
The eternal security of the believer has nothing to do with the heresy of Universalism.
To say that Christians can lose their salvation is to say that the blood of Christ was inadequate to perfect for all time those whom God ha sanctified.
1 John 5:13-15
John 10:27-30
Romans 8:28-39
Hebrews 9:12
Hebrews 10:10
John 5:24
And to say that everyone God knit together in the womb can't have salvation is to say that the blood of Christ was inadequate to perfect for all time those whom God created.
Plus, that would mean that God's plan included Him not getting His own desires. Yet the Bible declares that Love conquers all. So God/Love conquers all, yet He STILL doesn't get what He wants? The plan you believe that He came up with leaves His desires unfulfilled. But the all-knowing, perfect creator would surely come up with a plan that the all-knowing, perfect creator would be happy with. Or maybe He did! Maybe Love really conquers all, and death and the grave are truly defeated, and there will be no more tears or sadness.
To say that Christians can lose their salvation is to say that the blood of Christ was inadequate to perfect for all time those whom God has sanctified.
1 John 5:13-15
John 10:27-30
Romans 8:28-39
Hebrews 9:12
Hebrews 10:10
John 5:24
That's exactly right ILNC. All sin was judged and paid for at the cross. Not forgiven, but judged. When a person believes in Christ those sins previously judged at the cross are forgiven. It is impossible to commit a sin which was not already judged at the cross. And the church-age believer is placed into union with Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit which means that the believer is positionally sanctified. He can never lose his position in Christ. He is eternally secure.
That's exactly right ILNC. All sin was judged and paid for at the cross. Not forgiven, but judged. When a person believes in Christ those sins previously judged at the cross are forgiven. It is impossible to commit a sin which was not already judged at the cross. And the church-age believer is placed into union with Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit which means that the believer is positionally sanctified. He can never lose his position in Christ. He is eternally secure.
The point remains that human motivation encompasses far more than fear and there are myriad motives for sin . . . something the critics of UR seem to ignore. The truth of the matter is you are oddly correct . . . everyone who is saved by Christ (which is everyone, btw) . . . cannot lose their eternal life . . . but there will be divine discipline (= corrective consequences commensurate with the acts) for failure to build on Jesus' foundation of "love God and each other."
Everyone is Not saved, nor will they be. You will answer to God for promoting the lie of Universalism.
To say that Christians can lose their salvation is to say that the blood of Christ was inadequate to perfect for all time those whom God has sanctified.
1 John 5:13-15
John 10:27-30
Romans 8:28-39
Hebrews 9:12
Hebrews 10:10
John 5:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
That's exactly right ILNC. All sin was judged and paid for at the cross. Not forgiven, but judged. When a person believes in Christ those sins previously judged at the cross are forgiven. It is impossible to commit a sin which was not already judged at the cross. And the church-age believer is placed into union with Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit which means that the believer is positionally sanctified. He can never lose his position in Christ. He is eternally secure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA
Praise God this is true!!!
Why do you two believe Jesus' blood is inadequate for the vast majority of all people ever created? You believe there's not enough "power in the blood" to save everyone He desires to save.
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All sin was judged and paid for at the cross. Not forgiven, but judged. When a person believes in Christ those sins previously judged at the cross are forgiven. It is impossible to commit a sin which was not already judged at the cross. And the church-age believer is placed into union with Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit which means that the believer is positionally sanctified. He can never lose his position in Christ. He is eternally secure.
