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You are incorrigible in your constant lying about URs, Finn. URs definitely are Christians. You and your crowd are the ones who say we are not.There is no longer any doubt that it is on purpose. God have mercy on you.
Lying? You have accused me of that before, and every time you have been proved wrong. Did you, or did you not say "them" when you talked about Christians? (hint, it had to do with your comment "tickles their ears.") If Christians are "them", then who are you? If you consider yourself a Christian, which is more than fine by me, then would it make sense to say "us" as opposed to "them"?
Yes, God will have mercy on me. That is His promise. Thanks.
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. . . he thinks he is doing God's work in defending his beliefs from satanic influence. It is sad . . . very sad.
Wow!!! That is not very friendly. I will pray for you again Mystic
PS There is no reason to get angry. Pleroo already got angry for unknown reasons, and now you are angry too. It is unnecessary.
It is important to understand that God is not some supernatural magical overlord ordering us around for His pleasure. He is our entire reality itself. We are an integral part of Him . . . not just physical beings . . . but "procreators" of individual "cells" of His consciousness that must "mature" into some acceptable "harmonic" resonance with His love . . . truly children needing to "grow up". . . not pets needing to be obedient. Good luck with it . . . it was put together rather haphazardly for this forum at the request of a very insistent young friend of mine. There is so much more that is not there . . . but I am old and re-tired. I have added many bits and pieces in various threads around the forum . . . but with so many posts I can't remember exactly where they all are.
Okay, finished reading. I believe I have the gyst of it -- and the stuff that was over my head, I believe I still vaguely comprehended. Good stuff, Mystic. Most of it resonates, much as I remember the link I posted to you doing: His way of putting it was that YHWH properly translated is not I AM, but instead I AM BECOMING, and that we are all a part of that becoming (he called his view of God panENtheism). At least, that's the core of it that I remember. Your synthesis certainly puts some teeth to that idea.
Now, if you don't mind, let's take this to the topic of this thread. I read in your response to someone on one of the links (paraphrased very loosely, so feel free to correct me) that, because we all share a common consciousness, you believe it was only necessary for ONE person to transcend in order to, essentially, get the ball rolling ... that person being Jesus.
But I'm curious as to why you believe he was that person as opposed to any other? Also, why do you believe he was able? And thirdly, what part, if any, does belief in him as that person play in this?
I hear even URs saying so often that everyone is going to bow and acknowledge Jesus as their savior and THEN they will be transformed and changed; that only those who believe in (confess) Jesus in the here and now will have the privelege of being part of the the Kingdom of Heaven (with varying opinions on just what the KoH actually is).
I know you don't share those opinions and I find that to be a much more logical stance. However, I don't find it at all consistent with what the Bible proclaims. While I see a vein of wisdom (regarding love) running throughout the Bible that I feel free to "cherry pick", I continue to have issues with accepting what I consider to be the mythology of the Jesus story in some things, without accepting it all, lock, stock and barrel. It seems more intellectually truthful to discard it all (and by discard, I mean take it ALL as myth with possible symbolic meaning). I'm wondering what allows you to see it differently.
There is nothing lovely or desirable in man; his heart is a sink of pollution, full of sin and uncleanness. Yet our modern, polite preachers tell us, that there is a fitness in men, and that God, seeing you a good creature, gives you his grace. But this, though it is a modern, polite and fashionable way of talking, is very unscriptural. Many pulpits ring of nothing more than doing no one any harm, living honestly, loving your neighbor as yourselves, and doing what you can, and then Christ is to make up the deficiency. This is making Christ to be half a Savior, and man the other part; but I say, Christ will be your whole righteousness, your whole wisdom, your whole sanctification, or else he will never be your whole redemption.
The word Yahweh is a modern scholarly convention for the Hebrew יהוה, transcribed into Roman letters as YHWH and known as the Tetragrammaton, for which the actual pronunciation is disputed. The most likely meaning of the name may be “He Brings Into Existence Whatever Exists", but there are many theories and none is regarded as conclusive. Exodus 3:13-15 is the first recorded instance of God naming himself. An etymologization of the name, connecting YHWH with the root HYH, occurs when YHWH, asked by Moses for his name, provides three names: "I Am That I Am", followed by "I Am," and finally "YHWH."
... יהוה אלהי אבתיכם... זה־שמי לעלם... אהיה אשר אהיה ויאמר כה תאמר לבני ישראל אהיה שלחני אליכם׃
"I AM THAT I AM [...] Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you [...] YHWH God of your fathers, [...] this is my name for ever"
Okay, finished reading. I believe I have the gyst of it -- and the stuff that was over my head, I believe I still vaguely comprehended. Good stuff, Mystic. Most of it resonates, much as I remember the link I posted to you doing: His way of putting it was that YHWH properly translated is not I AM, but instead I AM BECOMING, and that we are all a part of that becoming (he called his view of God panENtheism). At least, that's the core of it that I remember. Your synthesis certainly puts some teeth to that idea.
If you don't mmind, I'd like to give my thoughts on this. The I AM is that part of God that is within each and everyone of us. It is that part that we can merge with to become At-One with God. Moses did it, although he didn't have the Divinity of God because it wasn't then available, and so did Jesus because He made Divinity available and thus was able to claim the He and God are one.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
Now, if you don't mind, let's take this to the topic of this thread. I read in your response to someone on one of the links (paraphrased very loosely, so feel free to correct me) that, because we all share a common consciousness, you believe it was only necessary for ONE person to transcend in order to, essentially, get the ball rolling ... that person being Jesus.
Yes. Adam and Eve refused the Divinity so we had to wait until one person, even if it wasn't Jesus, to become Divine.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
But I'm curious as to why you believe he was that person as opposed to any other? Also, why do you believe he was able? And thirdly, what part, if any, does belief in him as that person play in this?
It didn't have to be Jesus. Jesus chose this for Himself while He was in Mary's womb. It was then that He still knew God and asked God to bestow into His soul Divine Love. While in the womb, this Love from God erradicated all past sins that were inherited from His parents genes and allowed Him to be born without sin although He was born with the capability to sin. During His life, He kept praying for Divine Love and was able to overcome the tendancy to sin making Him sin free in all aspects. Each one of us is capable of doing this in our own lifetime.
The belief in Jesus as a man can do nothing for the soul. It's the belief in what He taught that does. He taught to Love God and each other with Divine Love. Natural love cannot do this because it is like a roller coaster. Always going up and down in love for another. Divine Love is the rock that we build on that ensures we become as God intended us to become. His Divine children through love that never faulters or sways. Once this love is establishe din the soul, even the tiniest spark, it can never be taken away and it ensures immortality.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
I hear even URs saying so often that everyone is going to bow and acknowledge Jesus as their savior and THEN they will be transformed and changed; that only those who believe in (confess) Jesus in the here and now will have the privelege of being part of the the Kingdom of Heaven (with varying opinions on just what the KoH actually is).
I don't believe this to be true. I believe that all with follow the teachings of Jesus, not Jesus as a man. What He taught is what gets us in the Kingdom of God in the spirit world.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
I know you don't share those opinions and I find that to be a much more logical stance. However, I don't find it at all consistent with what the Bible proclaims. While I see a vein of wisdom (regarding love) running throughout the Bible that I feel free to "cherry pick", I continue to have issues with accepting what I consider to be the mythology of the Jesus story in some things, without accepting it all, lock, stock and barrel. It seems more intellectually truthful to discard it all (and by discard, I mean take it ALL as myth with possible symbolic meaning). I'm wondering what allows you to see it differently.
We have channelers that channel Jesus and He says there are things in the bible that aren't true and things that aren't in the bible that should be. Yes, some of the miracles did happen but not in the way it's proclaimed. Take the water to wine. He went to the nearest store and merely bought some. The walking on water is another. He was standing in shallow water and when the boat pulled beside Him, it gave the impression that He was walking on the water. The fig tree incident was false because it wasn't that time of year and, if He had cursed another living thing of Gods, He wouldn't have been sin free so He didn't curse anything.
If you don't mmind, I'd like to give my thoughts on this. The I AM is that part of God that is within each and everyone of us. It is that part that we can merge with to become At-One with God. Moses did it, although he didn't have the Divinity of God because it wasn't then available, and so did Jesus because He made Divinity available and thus was able to claim the He and God are one.
Yes. Adam and Eve refused the Divinity so we had to wait until one person, even if it wasn't Jesus, to become Divine.
It didn't have to be Jesus. Jesus chose this for Himself while He was in Mary's womb. It was then that He still knew God and asked God to bestow into His soul Divine Love. While in the womb, this Love from God erradicated all past sins that were inherited from His parents genes and allowed Him to be born without sin although He was born with the capability to sin. During His life, He kept praying for Divine Love and was able to overcome the tendancy to sin making Him sin free in all aspects. Each one of us is capable of doing this in our own lifetime.
The belief in Jesus as a man can do nothing for the soul. It's the belief in what He taught that does. He taught to Love God and each other with Divine Love. Natural love cannot do this because it is like a roller coaster. Always going up and down in love for another. Divine Love is the rock that we build on that ensures we become as God intended us to become. His Divine children through love that never faulters or sways. Once this love is establishe din the soul, even the tiniest spark, it can never be taken away and it ensures immortality.
I don't believe this to be true. I believe that all with follow the teachings of Jesus, not Jesus as a man. What He taught is what gets us in the Kingdom of God in the spirit world.
We have channelers that channel Jesus and He says there are things in the bible that aren't true and things that aren't in the bible that should be. Yes, some of the miracles did happen but not in the way it's proclaimed. Take the water to wine. He went to the nearest store and merely bought some. The walking on water is another. He was standing in shallow water and when the boat pulled beside Him, it gave the impression that He was walking on the water. The fig tree incident was false because it wasn't that time of year and, if He had cursed another living thing of Gods, He wouldn't have been sin free so He didn't curse anything.
Just my thoughts.
The above is destructive heresy, contrary to the Word of God. Such corrupt teachings lead to eternal damnation and separation from God, who revealed the truth through Jesus Christ and His very Words as recorded in Scripture. The Bible speaks clearly against those who would distort or deny Jesus Christ and His Word as revealed in the Bible.
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness[b] to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh[c] and despise authority." 2 Peter 2:1-4
That is very interesting and I've never heard that before.
There's a Christian Universalist who also expands on the concept of the "becoming" of God. As I recall, his perspective of it had to do, not with panentheism, but with what it means that there are "sons of god". If you are CU and have not read Eby, you may find his writings worthwhile. He's prolific and, unfortunately, I can't remember in which one of his series he discusses it, specifically.
It didn't have to be Jesus. Jesus chose this for Himself while He was in Mary's womb. It was then that He still knew God and asked God to bestow into His soul Divine Love. While in the womb, this Love from God erradicated all past sins that were inherited from His parents genes and allowed Him to be born without sin although He was born with the capability to sin. During His life, He kept praying for Divine Love and was able to overcome the tendancy to sin making Him sin free in all aspects. Each one of us is capable of doing this in our own lifetime.
If this were true, it would make Jesus beyond exceptional. You believe that all are capable of it, but I've got to say, I've not yet met someone who has overcome and is "sin-free". I've met people who are more consistently loving in their actions and attitudes than the average person, but none who are perfect.
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The belief in Jesus as a man can do nothing for the soul. It's the belief in what He taught that does. He taught to Love God and each other with Divine Love. Natural love cannot do this because it is like a roller coaster. Always going up and down in love for another. Divine Love is the rock that we build on that ensures we become as God intended us to become. His Divine children through love that never faulters or sways. Once this love is establishe din the soul, even the tiniest spark, it can never be taken away and it ensures immortality.
From your previous paragraph, I assume your belief is that one obtains "Divine Love" by praying or asking? I think I can find agreement that one obtains the ability to Love through nurturing the desire for it. For those who believe in a God, that desire would naturally flow into prayer whereas that would obviously not be true of the non-believer. And I think, in either case, the desire is only the start ... one has to nurture not just the desire, but also the attitudes and actions that make that desire reality: selflessness, sacrifice, patience, etc.
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I don't believe this to be true. I believe that all with follow the teachings of Jesus, not Jesus as a man. What He taught is what gets us in the Kingdom of God in the spirit world.
We have channelers that channel Jesus and He says there are things in the bible that aren't true and things that aren't in the bible that should be. Yes, some of the miracles did happen but not in the way it's proclaimed. Take the water to wine. He went to the nearest store and merely bought some. The walking on water is another. He was standing in shallow water and when the boat pulled beside Him, it gave the impression that He was walking on the water. The fig tree incident was false because it wasn't that time of year and, if He had cursed another living thing of Gods, He wouldn't have been sin free so He didn't curse anything.
Just my thoughts.
Not to be at all disrespectful, but I, personally, wouldn't find that a reliable way to find truth about events of the past. I'm just not open to it but that's me.
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