Did Rahab the harlot sin by lying to protect the spies? (godless, belief)

[Arena valleygirl]

You know Rahab was in the hall of faith as it is called, Hebrews 11 and many people teach that she sinned by lying to protect the spys. She saved her family and gave the Jews victory, did she sin here I would ask?

What are the principles to be learned from her story, do we when a murderer comes to our door and asks where your kids are say, in the back room under the bed, or can we say oh they are down at the pool in the park? So it will be interested to see what goes on here!

I guess that depends on if their system of ethics is deontological or teleological.

[Arena valleygirl]

Mystical are you hiding as Shiloh1, I am talking about Mysticphd, you sound like him. What a mystery things are to some, truthfully speaking

No where near MysticPHD, it actually cuts to the heart of your question AV. Nothing Myterious about the question at all. I have my answer but why do you think she did or did not? How do you know that that is the right answer?

[Arena valleygirl]

Well, because the Bible is not hard to understand for there is nothing new under the sun. You got good spies up in your loft, the enemy is looking for them, so you lie and send them where they won't find them, you go then and tell the good guys the coast is clear, they get free, the battle is won, the good guys win, you see if she didn't lie but told them, the spies are in the loft go get them, God would have been mad, you see, what was she supposed to do. God said she was great that day and she goes to heaven and is part of Gods blood or great grandmother. So if I am missing something here, let me know, I am willing to listen. And I pray alot and meditate alot and ask God to tell me.

Once we are done here will try Tamar of Judah and Lots daughters and see what happens.

having fun, please really want to know arena

I am not trying to point-out what you are missing, other than the issues sometimes are not as black and white as you seem to think - if so why ask the question?

So, it is ok to lie - the ends do justify the means. Now, think about under what circumstances it is ok to lie and then ask yourself how do I know if God would be ok with this? How objective is that? How does the Bible really help in those circumstances where there is an exception to the rule?

It can get pretty subjective and complicated.

I am trying to get you to think through your conclusions and not just say it is ok because Daddy said so.

[Arena valleygirl]

You are right, I am going to ask, you are a born again christian working for the cia, you got to go into Russia to get the plans for a sub, can you ever lie to do that? or murder? I am really asking from your relationship with God to point the truth out, I have thought about what you said, and lying is a problem in almost all curcumstances, what about acting? What about pretending, or telling a story, making something up or fooling around, dressing up as something else, or as a joke. I would like to hear about it. That is why I made the thread, I can learn.

arena

Originally Posted by Arena valleygirl

You are right, I am going to ask, you are a born again christian working for the cia, you got to go into Russia to get the plans for a sub, can you ever lie to do that? or murder? I am really asking from your relationship with God to point the truth out, I have thought about what you said, and lying is a problem in almost all curcumstances, what about acting? What about pretending, or telling a story, making something up or fooling around, dressing up as something else, or as a joke. I would like to hear about it. That is why I made the thread, I can learn.

arena

First, you are probably going to get alot of different answers to this question - from Christians no less.

Second, some might say that it is always wrong to lie and you need to do some sort of ethical gymnastics in order to save lives and not lie in the process (Deontological ethics). Others will tell you that the greater good (saving lives) outwieghs the lie and so go ahead an lie and repent later - God will understand (Teleological Ethic). Still others will tell that it depends on the circumstance and God, in certain circumstances, allows you to lie (Situational Ethics).

Third, the last one is tricky because the Bible no where lead us to what to do in all the possible situations one might find themselves in.

I think motive and intention are key. Knowledge plays a vital role as well yet we are no where near omniscience so our ability to caculate the situation is very limited at times. Conscience also helps.

Fourth, in deciding all this one might just be to late in an actual situation and end-up doing nothing in time to change the situation for the good.

Personally, I have no problem lying to someone who is bent on destructive behavior - and I could careless about the 'rule' just for the rule sake. Wisdom is key.

Lastly, I do not know how the Bible really helps in these types of circumstances - I mean God gives a command - thou shall not kill - but then again there are numerous circumstances that say otherwise and the Bible does nothing to exhaust those possibilities.

You should also ask yourself why have other godless cultures come up with the same 'rules' for society if we actually need the Bible to command us what to do?

[Meerkat2]

In the 10 commandments it is a prohibition about bearing false witness against your neighbour --- it seems to me that it is about weighing up who is in the right and wrong and doing the right thing........ protecting the innocent against those who would murder, steal, abuse is the right thing.......

[Arena valleygirl]

Well God is everywhere and if He wasn't in all societies in some way they wouldn't exist. Right and wrong is every where, and those who worship idols still have God's rules there to some extent or they could not function, they did not come up with the rules, the rules God gave and put in us when we are born, a concience and Him guiding even the godless, He warns all in their minds for people have to look at creation and death and that will only take you to Jesus Christ, for no culture has God as creator from the beginning in any way but the Jews and the others have an idol, it is easy to figure that we think all the time and we have to come from what thinks and matains everything, there is only one belief system on the planet that explains a thinker who creates, Islam is new and those people were idol worshipers first the idol of Islam came to them later, no one new Alah 1800 years ago, not any university has it for it wasn't thought up yet.

But you are saying some true things, it will be interesting to see when we talk about, Tamar dresses up as a ***** to get pregnant, because she is in a fix. And Lots daughters who were righteous and get pregnant from their father. God stories, all these stories connected. And Sampson with 3 Islamic girls, not Christians, all connected stories when the righteous are put to the test, you can not go left or right, and that seems like the only two choices. God knows those places all of you, when you just can't win, Moses knew it too, things would pile up on him and he would just not know what to do. Job too, David too, acted like a lunatic to fool the enemy.

with love arena