Mary: Co-Mediatrix, Co-Redemptrix, Co-Advocatrix (paradise, crucified, traditions, women)

[MissKate12]

Let me preface by saying, I do not hate catholics, nor is it my intention to hurt catholic people. I know many catholics, and they are good and decent human beings. It is my hope that by showing official catholic documents and using the official catholic Bible, my catholic friends on the forum will look to the word of God and not the traditions of men concerning their salvation.

Catholics call Mary co-mediatrix, co-redemptrix, co-advocatrix. Yet they claim to affirm 1 Timothy 2:5 "one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus."

However, at the same time they say Mary mediates between man and Jesus. You have to go through Mary to get to Jesus and through Jesus to get to God the Father. IOW, you’ve gone through two mediators!

I am quoting sources carrying the imprimatur (Catholic church’s official sanction, “let it be printed”) and the nihil obstat (Catholic church’s declaration that the document has no error in it).

In the book “The Glories of Mary” by Alphonsus Liguori (nihil obstat, Daniel V. Flynn, JCD, censor librorum; imprimatur, Joseph T. O’Keefe, vicar general, archdiocese of New York; Catholic Book Publishing Co. NY, 1981), Mary is called “the channel—to Jesus and from Jesus—by God’s own arrangement” (p. 9). She is further styled “most gracious Advocate” (p. 15) and “spouse of the king” (p. 18).

"By the merits of Jesus, Mary was made the mediatrix of our salvation; not a mediatrix of justice, of course, but of grace and intercession—as St. Bonaventure expressly calls her: ‘Mary, the most faithful mediatrix of our salvation’” (p. 97).

“And St. Lawrence Justinian asks, ‘How can she be otherwise than full of grace? She has been made the ladder of paradise, the gate of heaven, the most true mediatrix between God and human beings’” (p. 97).

“God will not save us without the intercession of Mary,” St. Bonaventure is quoted as saying in the same approved document (p. 107).

“No one, O most holy Mary, can know God but through you. No one can be saved or redeemed but through you, O Mother of God,” St. Germanus is quoted as saying (p. 107).

“St. Bonaventure says Mary is called ‘the Gate of Heaven’ because no one can enter that blessed kingdom without passing through her” (p. 102).

“The authority a mother has over her son is so great that, even though he is a monarch, with absolute dominion over all his subjects, she can never become her son’s subject” (p. 113).


“At the command of Mary all obey, even God (emphasis mine). She is omnipotent, for the queen, according to all laws, enjoys the same privileges as the king…Therefore, to use the words of St. Antonine, God has put the whole church not only under the patronage, but even under the power and authority, of Mary. Since, then, the mother must have the same power as the Son, Mary became omnipotent because Jesus is omnipotent” (p. 114).

Moderator cut: deleted Can anyone really believe that at the command of Mary all obey—even God? If Mary has that much authority, she is greater than God!

You can read your Bible from cover to cover and never find a single scripture that speaks of Mary's intercessory role in salvation.

You have a choice. You can believe what the Bible says, or you can believe what the RCC teaches.

Acts 4:10-12 (Douay Rheims Catholic Bible)

[10] Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man standeth here before you whole. [11] This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. [12] Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.

I pray that all catholics will pick up their Bibles, read and study them for themselves, and leave the traditions of men behind.

Blessings,

Katie

[hljc]

The chase of Mary for people salvation is what they mean , as Mary gives honor to Lord Jesus Christ and His salvation .... See Mary is a blessing of the Lord to bring salvation or easily for followers of Lord Jesus as Mary is a helper along with Holy Spirit to bring the blessing of salvation from Lord Jesus ...... See the Holy Spirit and Mary will only be venerated in their honor for their work to the Lord for delivering the Lord blessing , and believers are called never to worship or glorify Holy Spirit , and Mary, as this will give Holy Spirit , and Mary to retreat from more Blessing and acceptance of people faith will stall out ..... See believers can ignore the blessing the Lord has of Mary for though who would believe , but they cannot ignore Holy Spirit as there is Jesus cannot save anyone without Holy Spirit ........ Many people will believe what is said here is blaspheme , but the truth is Mary from the Lord Gives honor to Jesus and will never replace the Saviour Lord Jesus

[augiedogie]

Katie: What might be worth mentioning if the false teachings that Mary was born sinless, never sinned, never had sex, remained a virgin and never died but was taken up to heaven. There should be no doubt that Mary was a normal sinful human being, had sex with Joseph, had other children, and died, like all sinners, and that praying to Mary is idolatry.

We know that Mary was a sinner, because she had doubt about the words that God had given to Gabriel. That's evidence of imperfect faith and therefore sin.
Lk 1:34 "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
We know that she had sex and other children because of this:
Mt 12:47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.
Mk 6:3 Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.

And we know that prayer to Mary is wrong because Jesus directed the Christian to pray to God the Father. " ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name
Jn 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.
Mt 4:10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’’"

[Julian658]

Originally Posted by katiemygirl

Let me preface by saying, I do not hate catholics,

I pray that all catholics will pick up their Bibles, read and study them for themselves, and leave the traditions of men behind.

Blessings,

Katie

Katie:

There are many prayers directed to the Blessed Virgin Mary the Mother of God; I love all of them. This is what set Catholics apart form the thousands of Fundamentalist sects. I see no problem with a prayer to the Virgin in fact, I believe it is a beautiful thing and as you said she is the supreme mediator that brings people closer to God.

I adore the images and statues of the Blessed Virgin and it enhances the spirit of all Catholics. I cannot imagine our churches without images of Mary.



If you want to have a Christian life without traditions or images I see nothing wrong with that.

The Hail Mary has a biblical origin:

Luke 1:41-42 "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the child leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and exclaimed with a loud cry, 'Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.'"

I have news for you Katie: We know quite well Mary is not God. However, she is the Mother of God and we honor her. There are many beautiful prayers designed to ask Mary for help.

Furthermore, if you are a former Catholic you know the mass is all about Jesus and not Mary. If you think the mass is about Mary you need to go to mass once again to freshen your memory.

Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Catholics ask Mary and other saints to intercede for them to God on their behalf, in much the same way Protestants, Jews and many other religions ask other people to pray for them or for our loved ones.

Catholics are probably questioned more about our relationship with Mary than any other part of our faith. Protestants and most non-Catholics do not understand how or even why we revere her. We may be accused of "worshiping" her or even deifying her. What they don't get is that we respect her, love her, and ask her intercession. When we speak of "devotion" to the Blessed Mother, we do not mean we place her above God, Jesus, or the Holy Ghost.

I cannot imagine being a Catholic without the blessed Mother of God.

If you don't get that then it is OK. You belong to a completely different religion where the men of the church have decided to eliminate anything that resembles Catholicism.

[Julian658]

Originally Posted by Prairieparson

Katie: There should be no doubt that Mary was a normal sinful human

The flesh that produced Jesus in Earth cannot be stained by sin. That is the reason behind the Marian Theology.

praying to Mary is idolatry.

Thankfully God is much smarter than you.

God knows everything! God intimately knows the heart of those that pray to his Mother the Blessed Virgin. God has infinite wisdom and knows that anyone that seeks Jesus through Mary is saved.

I think Fundamentalists do not understand the nature of God. They portray God as a jealous petty deity because they misunderstand the inaccuracies of the Bible.

[Julian658]

Katie:

Here is a prayer to Mary:

I hope that helps your misguided preacher who keeps putting these thoughts in your head.

Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary! Pray for us, O holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. Amen.

[little elmer]

Graven images - everywhere!

show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus

It was the Spirit that was sent to lead us into all truth, was it not?

[Steph1980]

Really, Mary and Jesus looked like that???

[Mikelee81]

The Catholic "Mother Mary" is the Pagan Babylonian goddess Isis. The Occult works in both Exoteric (what they tell you) and Esoteric (what it means to them). If they can't get you to worship them directly, they'll do it indirectly.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

There is a command to know the enemy.

Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

There is a command not to be deceived.

Matthew 24

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

You can read all the Eschatological passages in the Scriptures and you will find no mention of "Mother Mary" having any role in the second coming of Christ. EWTN recently run a special having some "Father" explain to them how Mary will have play a central role in the second coming.

This isn't a surprise for those that understand the enemy. Isis's job is to unite all Religions together promoting "World Peace" to hand authority over to the Authority.

Luke 12:51-55

51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

52For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

53The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Look for the Vatican to embrace a "Universalistic" Jesus died for all heresy to unite the World's Religions for the sake of "World Peace". It's interesting that Islam also claims to venerate Mary. Look for the Vatican to embrace Islam in their package as the "saved".

1 Thessalonians 5

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.





John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

[little elmer]

Must spread rep b4 lee again.