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So the issue still remains: if hell was a real place with real suffering for those who lived in the time of the OT scriptures and read them, then why didn't this fact figure prominently in the OT scriptures in the same way it does in NT? Why didn't God vigorously warn people of the OT that if they didn't obey His commandments they would descend to a place of unimaginable torment and agony for all eternity?
The entire Bible is the word of God and is therefore holy Scripture. Peter put Paul's epistles on a par with the Old Testament Scriptures as shown in 2 Peter 3:15-16.
Furthermore, the New Testament epistles are the fulfillment of what Jesus said in John 16:12-15.
It is a rejection of God's word to relegate the New Testament to anything less than holy Scripture - sacred writing. The New Testament is God's revelation and instructions to the church-age believer on how to execute the Christian way of life.
So the issue still remains: if hell was a real place with real suffering for those who lived in the time of the OT scriptures and read them, then why didn't this fact figure prominently in the OT scriptures in the same way it does in NT? Why didn't God vigorously warn people of the OT that if they didn't obey His commandments they would descend to a place of unimaginable torment and agony for all eternity?
"People believe what they believe, until they no longer believe it."
The entire Bible is the word of God and is therefore holy Scripture. Peter put Paul's epistles on a par with the Old Testament Scriptures as shown in 2 Peter 3:15-16.
Furthermore, the New Testament epistles are the fulfillment of what Jesus said in John 16:12-15.
It is a rejection of God's word to relegate the New Testament to anything less than holy Scripture - sacred writing. The New Testament is God's revelation and instructions to the church-age believer on how to execute the Christian way of life.
Do you love and obey God's Law in the OT... or do you think God's Law is no longer God's word, and it doesn't apply to you ?
I just quoted Paul saying the Old Testament is holy scripture which is " profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. "
When Paul wrote those words, the New Testament did not exist.
The entire Bible is the word of God and is therefore holy Scripture. Peter put Paul's epistles on a par with the Old Testament Scriptures as shown in 2 Peter 3:15-16.
Furthermore, the New Testament epistles are the fulfillment of what Jesus said in John 16:12-15.
It is a rejection of God's word to relegate the New Testament to anything less than holy Scripture - sacred writing. The New Testament is God's revelation and instructions to the church-age believer on how to execute the Christian way of life.
Executing the Christian life as you call it is very simple, love your neighbor as yourself thus fulfilling the law.
So the issue still remains: if hell was a real place with real suffering for those who lived in the time of the OT scriptures and read them, then why didn't this fact figure prominently in the OT scriptures in the same way it does in NT? Why didn't God vigorously warn people of the OT that if they didn't obey His commandments they would descend to a place of unimaginable torment and agony for all eternity?
I usually do not get into these theological debates, but I was called to this one in bold above....
He did clearly warn people many many times of what was to come for disobedience (transgressions against Him), but as today, as in the time of the Christ, they do not perceive, they do not understand, so they reach not salvation.
Do you love and obey God's Law in the OT... or do you think God's Law is no longer God's word, and it doesn't apply to you ?
I just quoted Paul saying the Old Testament is holy scripture which is " profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. "
When Paul wrote those words, the New Testament did not exist.
.
Reread what I have already said and try to understand it. The entire Bible, both Old and New Testament is the word of God. At one time the Old Testament hadn't been completed. But as each book of the Old Testament was written it was accepted as divinely inspired. The same is true of the New Testament. As each epistle which went into the New Testament was written it was accepted as divinely inspired. Both the Old and New Testaments are Scripture. God is the divine author of both Testaments.
But this is off topic and so I won't address this issue further on this thread.
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-01-2012 at 09:45 AM..
Executing the Christian life as you call it is very simple, love your neighbor as yourself thus fulfilling the law.
To the contrary. The Christian way of life involves spiritual growth which is possible only through the intake, metabolization, and application of the word of God - Bible doctrine. The believer is commanded to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ (2 Pet. 3:18). Bible doctrine is the believer's spiritual food.
Claiming to love God while neglecting Bible doctrine and denying that the Bible is the word of God is hypocrisy. The believer's capacity to have personal love for God and impersonal love for all mankind increases with spiritual growth through the intake and application of God's word.
This also is not the topic of the thread and I won't address it any further.
To the contrary. The Christian way of life involves spiritual growth which is possible only through the intake, metabolization, and application of the word of God - Bible doctrine. The believer is commanded to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ (2 Pet. 3:18). Bible doctrine is the believer's spiritual food.
Claiming to love God while neglecting Bible doctrine and denying that the Bible is the word of God is hypocrisy. The believer's capacity to have personal love for God and impersonal love for all mankind increases with spiritual growth through the intake and application of God's word.
This also is not the topic of the thread and I won't address it any further.
This kind of belief is why the church is what it is and looked upon with disdain, for it wants to control you with its doctrine.
14For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. Ephesians 3
Growing in the grace and knowledge of him is nothing to do with bible doctrine, it is a result of being mindful of him, whom to know is life eternal.
What the church calls bible doctrine is nothing more than the teachings and traditions of men,Jesus Christ said his doctrine is to do the will of the Father and for those believing! this is nothing more or less than loving your neighbor as yourself. Now that is sound doctrine.
that punishment in hell was non-existent before Jesus died, and only became penalty for sin after Jesus' death? Put another way, did Jesus' death equally make eternal life in God's presence possible for the righteous and eternal death possible for the unrighteous, where prior to Jesus' crucifixion it would not have been part of God's plan to punish the wicked in fiery torment just as it would not have been part of God's plan to let the OT saints into heaven? I am brainstorming here and am trying to find a logical reason why God never speaks of torment in hell in the OT like the writers of the NT do.
In the Bible we have progressive revelation. The NT is an expansion of knowledge on top of what the OT gives us. The NT also expands on who God is, his nature, etc.
Yes....Hell has always existed. Jesus spoke of it in his story of Lazarus and the Rich man.
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