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Old 08-17-2012, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Alabama
69 posts, read 111,060 times
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1 Tim 4:1-2: “Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, V:3-4 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

What does Paul teach here?

Col. 2:16: “So let no one judge you in food or in drink, … they are a shadow of things to come.”

Rom 14:2 “For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3: “Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.”

And of course God made it very clear to Peter:

Acts 10:9-17: “On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air, And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, what God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice; and the vessel was received up again into heaven. Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate.”

Of course this is just going back to making all animals food like it was after the flood:

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

And the only change was given to Israel in the law. Now that the law is being put aside for the time of Grace and we Gentiles it is removed from them as well.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:38 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,495,513 times
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I would say that his focus more about those who are heed[ing] to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons and they do so because they depart from the faith.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,032,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K4DL View Post
1 Tim 4:1-2: “Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, V:3-4 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

What does Paul teach here?

Col. 2:16: “So let no one judge you in food or in drink, … they are a shadow of things to come.”

Rom 14:2 “For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3: “Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.”

And of course God made it very clear to Peter:

Acts 10:9-17: “On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air, And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, what God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice; and the vessel was received up again into heaven. Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate.”

Of course this is just going back to making all animals food like it was after the flood:

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

And the only change was given to Israel in the law. Now that the law is being put aside for the time of Grace and we Gentiles it is removed from them as well.
Essentially it shows that you can eat anything you desire.
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Old 08-18-2012, 01:38 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,767 posts, read 2,349,068 times
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.

God's Law says what is forbidden to eat.

But men were making up their own food laws and that is what Paul was referencing.

Disobedience to God's Law, including food laws, is a sin, period.


.
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:42 AM
 
Location: Alabama
69 posts, read 111,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
.

God's Law says what is forbidden to eat.

But men were making up their own food laws and that is what Paul was referencing.

Disobedience to God's Law, including food laws, is a sin, period.


.
Yes God's law while in effect for Israel did indeed forbid some foods for them.

You seem to misunderstand what Paul is saying and ignoring what God showed to Peter.
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,661,840 times
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Does Paul teach that we can eat "every creature of God"?

Answer: Yes.


Sometimes people see what they want to see when they read the Scriptures. Or perhaps they have been taught certain doctrines without examining them closely.

For example, the food eaten before the Ark, on the Ark and after the flood.

CLEAN AND UNCLEAN BEASTS:

Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

There were clearly clean beasts and unclean beasts before the ark sailed. They were clean and unclean in reference to sacrifices - not diet.

For those who say they were clean or unclean for diet - I say please prove it. Before the flood the diet of man did not include animals - clean or unclean.

After the flood THE CLEAN ANIMALS WERE SACRIFICED.

Sacrifice: Clean animals.

Gen 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

After the flood Diet: EVERY MOVING THING THAT LIVES:

Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Every means "every" in 9:2 just as it means "every" in 9:3.

Men may not have wanted to eat every moving thing that lives but it was not sin to do so. The dietary laws were added to the covenant God made with Israel in contrast to the blessing God gave to Noah and his sons to eat every moving thing that lives.

Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them...Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

*The original diet for man was herbs and fruit.*

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

*The Diet on the Ark: (Same as original)*

Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

The green herb was the food that was eaten by beasts.

Gen 6:21 And take thou unto thee of ALL FOOD THAT IS EATEN and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

*The Diet after the Ark:*

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

As you can see God made no distinction at that time (after the flood) between clean and unclean foods - EVERY MOVING THING THAT LIVETH was the blessed diet.


Amen.




BON-APPETI !
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Alabama
69 posts, read 111,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Essentially it shows that you can eat anything you desire.
Thats exactly what it is saying. Seems some just cant accept something so simple and clear. Some want to turn their back on Grace and Jesus Christ and try to earn their way to heaven by trying to keep the law that was given to Israel not realizing that to keep the law they could not even go into a gentiles house. That of course creates a problem since under the law they are an unclean gentile to begin with.
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:23 AM
 
9,690 posts, read 10,020,758 times
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The food laws are from God to promote good health and to prevent poor health , and these laws will not condemn your soul in heaven as believed they were in Judaism were people would sacrifice food on the altar before God ...... Where through Christianity Jesus removed the sacrifice and He became the sacrifice where food offering was shut down and is blaspheme to Heaven today...... So if you want to eat foods that are forbidden in the Word of God which people do like ; shell fish and bottom dwelling fish, and cud eater like rabbits and pig have worms in the meat , and cloven hooves of some wild goats in some cultures, than it should be in complete moderation as God the creator gave these rules to promote good health
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:56 AM
 
4,686 posts, read 6,140,925 times
Reputation: 3988
Quote:
Originally Posted by K4DL View Post
1 Tim 4:1-2: “Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, V:3-4 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

What does Paul teach here?

Col. 2:16: “So let no one judge you in food or in drink, … they are a shadow of things to come.”

Rom 14:2 “For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3: “Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.”

And of course God made it very clear to Peter:

Acts 10:9-17: “On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air, And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, what God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice; and the vessel was received up again into heaven. Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate.”

Of course this is just going back to making all animals food like it was after the flood:

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

And the only change was given to Israel in the law. Now that the law is being put aside for the time of Grace and we Gentiles it is removed from them as well.
-------------------

Peters vision is Acts 10 wasnt referring to food, when you go to verse 28, its shows he was referring to gentiles as unclean
28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.


As for 1 Tim 4:1-2, ive heard many times that pork, etc wasnt considered food, so he wasnt referring to that in those verses when taking about food, but only the foods that were considered clean and the whole issue of what defiles a man in Mark 7:18-19, is more so of washing hands before you eat more than eating whatever you like.


But i do agree Genesis 7 & 9 pretty much makes it clear the dietary laws in Leviticus & Deut. were more ceremonial laws and were done away with when the law was fulfilled by Christ. While eating pork and shrimp is no longer a sin, it isnt exactly the best for our health either if we eat it often, so for health purposes I eat it every now and then.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:21 AM
 
1,784 posts, read 3,459,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
-------------------

Peters vision is Acts 10 wasnt referring to food, when you go to verse 28, its shows he was referring to gentiles as unclean
28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.
It's referring to both. Food was the primary example to drive the point home that Gentiles are to be included in his fellowship now too. It would be a pretty odd example if he was still supposed to follow the Mosaic dietary restrictions.

Quote:
As for 1 Tim 4:1-2, ive heard many times that pork, etc wasnt considered food, so he wasnt referring to that in those verses when taking about food, but only the foods that were considered clean and the whole issue of what defiles a man in Mark 7:18-19, is more so of washing hands before you eat more than eating whatever you like.
You've probably heard that from people desperate to cling to dietary laws for whatever reasons*. They are forced to ignore words like "every" and "nothing." And that's just an odd, forced interpretation of Mark to fit their theology.

Quote:
But i do agree Genesis 7 & 9 pretty much makes it clear the dietary laws in Leviticus & Deut. were more ceremonial laws and were done away with when the law was fulfilled by Christ. While eating pork and shrimp is no longer a sin, it isnt exactly the best for our health either if we eat it often, so for health purposes I eat it every now and then.
Yes - the Christian life does not call for asceticism, but rather moderation and also thanksgiving for what we partake in.



* But many people then won't follow all the other Mosaic laws, so I'm not sure why things like food get undue priority.
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