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Well, we know that Moses and Elijah descended from heaven, both of whom died hundreds of years before Christ. I'd say that's a pretty good sign.
I would most certainly disagree with that. Jesus said, after the transfiguration, that no man had ascended to heaven with the exception of himself, who had descended from heaven. (John 3:13)
Jesus called it a vision. (Matthew 17:9) What was described as Moses and Elijah, was prophetic in the sense that God had foretold that one likened to Moses and Elijah would be raised, not from the dead, but in likeness. Jesus was that one. They represented the Law and the Prophets.
The Jews awaited the Messiah to come, upon death they wait for the resurrection. You have to remember, the meek shall inherit _______? What? Heaven? No. The earth. God created Adam perfect without sin. Adam's eventual sin brought death but had he not sinned, he wouldn't have died. It certainly wasn't God's plan to create man to die. If Jesus takes away sin then, upon the conclusion of the current system of sin under Satan, the meek shall inherit the Earth and live forever upon it. (Psalm 37:11; 115:16)
The idea that we all go to heaven when we die is a religious myth not a Bible teaching.
God's purpose for man was to fill and subdue the Earth, and will God's will not be done?
I believe people before Christ are able to be saved. Which is why God created the law in the Old Testament. He gave Moses the 10 commandments, which is what they were to follow if they wanted to be saved. But I do not believe those saved in the Old Testament are in heaven. They are awaiting judgement like everyone else.
They will not be judged by their works because they were under the law and not grace. They will be judged by the law.
We, under the New Testament are under grace and not the law.
The Jews awaited the Messiah to come, upon death they wait for the resurrection. You have to remember, the meek shall inherit _______? What? Heaven? No. The earth. God created Adam perfect without sin. Adam's eventual sin brought death but had he not sinned, he wouldn't have died. It certainly wasn't God's plan to create man to die. If Jesus takes away sin then, upon the conclusion of the current system of sin under Satan, the meek shall inherit the Earth and live forever upon it. (Psalm 37:11; 115:16)
The idea that we all go to heaven when we die is a religious myth not a Bible teaching.
God's purpose for man was to fill and subdue the Earth, and will God's will not be done?
To the contrary. The Bible teaches that believers go to heaven when they die.
First of all, Matthew 10:28 says that the soul survives the death of the body. '"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The soul, which survives the death of the body has to go somewhere.
Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4 show Tribulational martyrs in heaven during the Tribulation.
Paul, who had been taken up into heaven in the spirit (2 Cor. 12:1-4) understood that to be absent from the body was to be at home with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8-9; Phil. 1:21-26).
Prior to the ascension of Jesus Christ, believers went to the 'Paradise' side of Hades. Jesus told the thief that he would be in Paradise with Him that day (Luke 23:43).
With the ascension of Jesus Christ into heaven where He is currently seated at the right hand of the Father, believers now go to the third heaven where 'Paradise' now is (2 Cor. 12:1-4).
This statement >> 'The idea that we all go to heaven when we die is a religious myth not a Bible teaching,' is a claim of the cults and simply is not true.
When Jesus Christ returns to the earth at the end of the Tribulation, those who are in heaven will return to the earth with Him. But for now, believers who die go into the presence of the Lord in heaven.
To the contrary. The Bible teaches that believers go to heaven when they die.
First of all, Matthew 10:28 says that the soul survives the death of the body. '"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The soul, which survives the death of the body has to go somewhere.
Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4 show Tribulational martyrs in heaven during the Tribulation.
Paul, who had been taken up into heaven in the spirit (2 Cor. 12:1-4) understood that to be absent from the body was to be at home with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8-9; Phil. 1:21-26).
Prior to the ascension of Jesus Christ, believers went to the 'Paradise' side of Hades. Jesus told the thief that he would be in Paradise with Him that day (Luke 23:43).
With the ascension of Jesus Christ into heaven where He is currently seated at the right hand of the Father, believers now go to the third heaven where 'Paradise' now is (2 Cor. 12:1-4).
This statement >> 'The idea that we all go to heaven when we die is a religious myth not a Bible teaching,' is a claim of the cults and simply is not true.
When Jesus Christ returns to the earth at the end of the Tribulation, those who are in heaven will return to the earth with Him. But for now, believers who die go into the presence of the Lord in heaven.
Which raises a few questions.
1. Why do they return to earth?
2. What happens to the non-believers when they die?
3. If they have already been judged what is the need for a final Judgement Day?
Jesus did not have to be born or alive in the flesh for them to believe. He was still God before he was Jesus. And God supplied all the people in the Old testament more than enough evidence that he existed and what the path to salvation was. Remember the 10 commandments? Remember the plagues? Remember the preaching of Moses and Elijah?
Because Christ's kingdom will be on the earth. And in the eternal state, after the Millennial kingdom, the New Jerusalem will descend from heaven and to the earth (or above the earth), and the throne of God the Father and the Lamb will be in the New Jerusalem (Revelation chapters 21 and 22).
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2. What happens to the non-believers when they die?
Unbelievers go to the 'torments' side of Hades where they await the great white throne judgment which will take place at the end of the Millennium. They will then go into the lake of fire forever.
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3. If they have already been judged what is the need for a final Judgement Day?
Hades is a temporary holding place for the unbeliever until the time of the great white thone judgment. Everyone is born into this world already under condemnation. The only way to have that condemnation removed is to believe on Jesus Christ. Those who die without ever having placed their faith in Christ for eternal life have to go somewhere when they die. That place is Hades which is their jail where they await the great white throne judgment which is not to determine guilt of innocence, for all who appear at the great white throne judgment are guilty. What will be determined is the degree of punishment. Everyone who goes to the lake of fire will be there forever, but there will be degrees of punishment.
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-27-2012 at 12:09 PM..
Jesus did not have to be born or alive in the flesh for them to believe. He was still God before he was Jesus. And God supplied all the people in the Old testament more than enough evidence that he existed and what the path to salvation was. Remember the 10 commandments? Remember the plagues? Remember the preaching of Moses and Elijah?
Actually what we call the 10 commandments are actually 10 categories of commandments. Christians have just kept one representative one out of each category. The Jews followed and still follow all 613 commandments that were given.
The old Testament people had many guidelines given to them.
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