Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The testimony of the prophets and of the apostles is that what they communicated is the word of God. Scripture has already been shown. That means that the Bible is the word of God preserved in writing. To not believe the Bible is to not believe God's word.
No, that's the testimony of some of the writers about some of what they wrote. It is your right to accept the testimony of men without substantiation or without giving any thought as to whether what they wrote is in line with the nature of the God who is love. But that the bible is the "Word of God" isn't actually suported by what you have so far shared in this thread.
Quote:
I've said what I have to say about it. I expect that this thread will desolve into personal attacks and insults and accusations from the usual people, as in post #30, but I will not participate in it.
The questions you have left unanswered give a clue to as to why you are not interested in participating in your own thread anymore.
One might believe the moon is made of cheese, but that does not make it so.
When citing less than acceptable letters as supporting "the Word of God" theory proposed by the OP one might wish to at the very least present the fact that the two major works cited, 2nd Peter and 2nd Timothy, are supposed by most scholars to have been written by someone other than the apostles.
That is not to say there are not important words written in either one. But it does state that there may be agendas at play in the writing and the claim of authorship.
Bruce Metzger, whom the OP has cited on other threads as a reasonable source, writes of 2nd Peter--
One can still "believe" the Bible to be instructional while questioning authorship that simply doesn't make sense. However, failure to understand the many "extra" sources of biblical authorship is frequently an attempt to idolize the medium as opposed to understanding it.
I had not noticed this post until now. As for the claims that Peter did not write 2 Peter, the following articles on the matter will suffice.
Excerpt:
Summary and Conclusion
It may be conclusively stated that there is no definitive evidence against the authenticity of 2 Peter in spite of the fact that the majority of scholarship today rejects apostolic authorship. The external evidence, while not proving authenticity, neither disproves it, for the evidence provides twenty-two possible usages of 2 Peter. The internal evidence, particularly the personal allusions to Peter’s life, clearly means to communicate that the author is Peter.
We examined the criticisms to determine whether they were based on provable fact or assumption. The external evidence is not very strong for this epistle, but as we have seen, the fact that it was accepted into the canon in spite of the other pseudo-Petrine literature argues favorably for it. Concerning the internal evidence, it should be obvious that the critics’ interpretations of historical references are based on assumption.
'The Bible Knowledge Commentary, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty' devotes three pages defending the Petrine authorship of 2 Peter. If anyone is interested they can buy a copy and read it.
Does the expression 'The Word of God' refer only to Jesus Christ Himself as some people allege, or does the phrase have a broader meaning? That question is answered by looking at the context in which the expression is used.
1.) The apostle John applied the expression 'the Word' (ho logos) and 'the Word of God' (ho logon tou theou) to Jesus in a personal sense in John 1:1 and 14, and Revelation 19:13.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . 14] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Revelation 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
However, John applied that same expression to the visions that he saw and recorded in the Book of Revelation.
Revelation 1:2 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2] who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
'In referring to his visions as the ''word of God,'' John emphasizes his continuity with the prophets in the OT as well as the apostles in the NT. The following passages show us John's concept of the Word of God: 1:9; 3:8, 10; 6:9; 12:11; 17:17; 19:9; 20:4.' [The Expositors Bible Commentary, vol. 12, p. 417]. These verses refer to Revelation 1:9; 3:8, 10; 6:9; 12:11; 17:17; 19:9; 20:4.
John recorded the visions he saw, and the message he was given as he was commanded to do thus making the Book of Revelation the word of God.
Revelation 1:19 "Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.
Revelation 3:1 ''To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: 'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.'
2.) Jesus Himself referred to the Mosaic Law as the word of God. The textual variant - 'the command of God' is not an issue for God's command is His word.
Matthew 15:4 "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.' 5] "But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God," 6] he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the word of God (logon tou theou) for the sake of your tradition.
3.) The apostle Paul called the message that he, Silvanus and Timothy communicated to the Thessalonians as the word of God. Not the word of men, but the word of God. Word of God by the way is in the masculine gender.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also works in you who believe.
4.) The phrase 'the word of God' occurs numerous times in the Book of Acts. For instance, Acts 4:31; Acts 6:2, Acts 6:7; Acts 11:1; Acts 12:24.
Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.
Acts 6:2 So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables.
Acts 6:7The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
Acts 11:1 Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
Acts 12:24 But the word of the Lord continued to grow and to be multiplied.
Far from referring only to Jesus Christ, the expression 'the word of God' is used not only for Jesus, but for the gospel, for prophecies and visions, for the commands of God, and for the written word. As is seen, the Book of Revelation is the word of God. It is seen also that the Book of Jeremiah is the word of God. In Jeremiah 36 it is seen that the Book of Jeremiah is the result of Jeremiah obeying the LORD by writing on a scroll all the words which the LORD had spoken to him.
Jeremiah 36:1 In the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, this word came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2] "Take a scroll and write on it all the words which I have spoken to you concerning Israel and concerning Judah, and concerning all the nations, from the day I first spoke to you, from the days of Josiah, even to this day. . . . 4] Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah, and Baruch wrote on a scroll at the dictation of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD which He had spoken to him. . . . 6] "So you go and read from the scroll which you have written at my dictation the words of the LORD to the people in the LORD'S house on a fast day. And also you shall read them to all the people of Judah who come from their cities.
So, does the expression 'the word of God' refer only to Jesus? The answer of course is 'No.' Is the Bible the word of God? Yes it is!!!
Jesus is the Word of God because He is the revealed Person of the Trinity. And despite the claims of some, the Bible is the word of God because it is God's communicated message to man.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
