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here is your worst, and 1st. contradiction, you said, "equal in glory". if equal and yet separate, how can one be the first person, and another a second, if equal?. and as for glory, if separate, and distinct how can one give the other his glory when one said that he will not give his glory to another. if the Son is so separate, and distinct from the Father, please tells us how, and why he gave his glory to another.
2nd. you contradict the BIBLE, when you say in rev 21:6 "the Alpha and the Omega", there, is not the "Alpha and the Omega", in rev 22:13. that a straight out contradiction. do you have two Alpha and the Omega. if so you have two Gods.
3rd. when you said, three distinct person, and one nature, that's another contradiction. because if you're three distinct person, then you're three distinct Gods. and that's Polytheisms. because the definition of distinct is: distinguished as not being the same; not identical; separate.
so your whole statement is an ERROR, listen to what you said, "God in three persons and three persons in one God, without mixing the persons or dividing the divine being". (mixing is just a fancy word for separate). For each person—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—is distinct, but the deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and co-eternal in majesty".
Now listen real good twin.spin, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". I know you know this verse. this is speaking of the Lord Jesus the Christ, (the son). notice the bold, and underline word of " The everlasting Father". here the prophet is speaking by the mouth of God and saying that the Son is the everlasting Father". do you agree with GOD?. because prophets speak by GOD. so do you agree with the scripture, YES or NO.
I'll be waiting for your answer.
1) How ... simple. Jesus is both true God and true man. Jesus' first coming was to be the humble servant so as in that nature he could. That however doesn't mean that what was rightly his is still not there.
Philippians 2:6-7 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the verynatureof a servant, being made in human likeness.
2) all of the translations that I use (YLT on occasion) have it
Rev 22:13
KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
NIV
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
ESV
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
YLT
I am the Alpha and the Omega -- the Beginning and End -- the First and the Last
3) 3 Gods .... oh I see. Not surprising you can't understand something that doesn't fit human wisdom:
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
1) How ... simple. Jesus is both true God and true man. Jesus' first coming was to be the humble servant so as in that nature he could. That however doesn't mean that what was rightly his is still not there.
Philippians 2:6-7 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the verynatureof a servant, being made in human likeness.
2) all of the translations that I use (YLT on occasion) have it
Rev 22:13
KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
NIV
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
ESV
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
YLT
I am the Alpha and the Omega -- the Beginning and End -- the First and the Last
3) 3 Gods .... oh I see. Not surprising you can't understand something that doesn't fit human wisdom:
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Look twin.spin I'm not against you, OK, nor is I'm arguing against, or with you either. I'm trying to reason with you. please understand that. lets work together alright. for the Lord God almighty said, "come lets reason together". well lets do that here also. now look at what you said, "Philippians 2:6-7 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the verynatureof a servant, being made in human likeness". this is the perfect verse that is the heart of the matter. listen in the KJV, the word you used as nature, is the Word form. the same word, G3444 μορφή morphe, which means “nature”, as in your translation. but if one look further into that word, its root is G3313 μέρος meros (mer'-os). which means, a division, or share. there's our word. see twin.spin, Jesus the Christ is the “Share”, of God. listen, the one, whom you in your doctrine of your trinity you calls the SECOND PERSON, is really the Share of the ONLY PERSON. see we’re not far apart. whom you calls the second person of the trinity, is the shared spirit of God in flesh. just one only supportive scripture to show this, Zechariah 4:6 "Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts”. see, here the LORD have a spirit, and that spirit, small case “s” in spirit, is indicating a human, (spirit), in a man. hence your understanding the dual nature of God, the Lord Jesus. this spirit, is NOT A PERSON who is separate, as in G2087 ἕτερος heteros, which means “another” PERSON of a different sort, or (NATURE). NO, but the Lord Jesus is of the SAME PERSON, only the SHARED, “spirit”, as in Zechariah 4:6, states. the Lord Jesus is the G243 ἄλλος allos (al'-los), “another”, of the SAME sort, or (NATURE), which is clearly stated again in Zechariah 13:7, as God "fellow", or "another".
Philippians 2:6-7 tells us perfectly who the Lord Jesus is. God, “SHARED” in flesh, (YOUR SECOND PERSON OF YOUR TRINITY). not a separate Person, but the same PERSON, only SHARED. and when he, GOD, came, (Isaiah 35:4), as the shared spirit, he the shared spirit, which is the "offspring", or the diversity" by NATURE, humble himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. hence the two NATURES as Philippians 2:6-7, states. that’s why I know God died, not in the ETERNAL nature, NO, but in the temporary flesh NATURE, of Philippians 2:7 & 8. the outward MAN, FLESH, “Son of God”. the inward Man, spirit, “Son of Man”. the shared spirit in flesh and blood. now glorified, after his resurrection, (NO BLOOD). and in his glorification of the Spirit, he is God in a Glorified body. that’s why he came on Pentecost as the Holy Spirit. because just as he said in his prayer, in John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was”. what was that glory?, answer, SPIRIT. just go to Genesis chapter 1, verses 1 & 2 it tells us of that glory. now notice something also twin.spin. what he was before, is now in union with what he now have, flesh and bone., YES, flesh and bone, NO BLOOD. for the blood is the life of the flesh, see (Leviticus 17:11, and verse 14). see this is the NATURE God died from, the flesh nature, as we will, or unless quicken. for in his glorification, he live not by BLOOD. but by the Spirit. for flesh and blood cannot enter, nor inherit the kingdom of God. but flesh and bone can enter. that’s why in Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have”. did you see what was missing?, no BLOOD. because that spotless, and blemish blood was for the sins of the world.
conclusion. Whom the trinitarians calls their second person of their trinity is no more that the SAHARED spirit of the only true Spirit, “THE HOLY SPIRIT”. the one whom you call second person, is what the word of God calls the SHARED Person. Son is only a title of “THE HOLY SPIRIT” shared in flesh. and Father is only a title of same one HOLY SPIRIT not shared in flesh. hence the term “another”, Allos which expresses a numerical difference (that the plurality of God, the numerical difference, "Father", and "Son"), and denotes another of the same sort. sort meaning nature. so, twin.spin I hope we can work from this understanding and move forward. because we’re not that far apart. just some minor misunderstand which is easily corrected. ONE GOD, and ONE GOD ONLY, the SAME PERSON, ONLY SHARED, who worketh all in all. 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all”. same Spirit, same Lord, and the Lord is that Spirit, ("Now the Lord is that Spirit”, 2 Corinthians 3:17
a). see that word "NOW". now he that was in flesh and blood is "NOW", Spirit, with flesh and bone. that's why I know that the Alpha and Omega, is the first and the last. the book of Revelation is revealing who is was in that flesh and blood body that walked the earth with us.
Please re-read this post again, and get the meat in. thanks.
Look twin.spin I'm not against you, OK, nor is I'm arguing against, or with you either. I'm trying to reason with you. please understand that. lets work together alright. for the Lord God almighty said, "come lets reason together". well lets do that here also. now look at what you said, "Philippians 2:6-7 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the verynatureof a servant, being made in human likeness". this is the perfect verse that is the heart of the matter. listen in the KJV, the word you used as nature, is the Word form. the same word, G3444 μορφή morphe, which means “nature”, as in your translation. but if one look further into that word, its root is G3313 μέρος meros (mer'-os). which means, a division, or share. there's our word. see twin.spin, Jesus the Christ is the “Share”, of God. listen, the one, whom you in your doctrine of your trinity you calls the SECOND PERSON, is really the Share of the ONLY PERSON. see we’re not far apart. whom you calls the second person of the trinity, is the shared spirit of God in flesh. just one only supportive scripture to show this, Zechariah 4:6 "Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts”. see, here the LORD have a spirit, and that spirit, small case “s” in spirit, is indicating a human, (spirit), in a man. hence your understanding the dual nature of God, the Lord Jesus. this spirit, is NOT A PERSON who is separate, as in G2087 ἕτερος heteros, which means “another” PERSON of a different sort, or (NATURE). NO, but the Lord Jesus is of the SAME PERSON, only the SHARED, “spirit”, as in Zechariah 4:6, states. the Lord Jesus is the G243 ἄλλος allos (al'-los), “another”, of the SAME sort, or (NATURE), which is clearly stated again in Zechariah 13:7, as God "fellow", or "another".
Philippians 2:6-7 tells us perfectly who the Lord Jesus is. God, “SHARED” in flesh, (YOUR SECOND PERSON OF YOUR TRINITY). not a separate Person, but the same PERSON, only SHARED. and when he, GOD, came, (Isaiah 35:4), as the shared spirit, he the shared spirit, which is the "offspring", or the diversity" by NATURE, humble himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. hence the two NATURES as Philippians 2:6-7, states. that’s why I know God died, not in the ETERNAL nature, NO, but in the temporary flesh NATURE, of Philippians 2:7 & 8. the outward MAN, FLESH, “Son of God”. the inward Man, spirit, “Son of Man”. the shared spirit in flesh and blood. now glorified, after his resurrection, (NO BLOOD). and in his glorification of the Spirit, he is God in a Glorified body. that’s why he came on Pentecost as the Holy Spirit. because just as he said in his prayer, in John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was”. what was that glory?, answer, SPIRIT. just go to Genesis chapter 1, verses 1 & 2 it tells us of that glory. now notice something also twin.spin. what he was before, is now in union with what he now have, flesh and bone., YES, flesh and bone, NO BLOOD. for the blood is the life of the flesh, see (Leviticus 17:11, and verse 14). see this is the NATURE God died from, the flesh nature, as we will, or unless quicken. for in his glorification, he live not by BLOOD. but by the Spirit. for flesh and blood cannot enter, nor inherit the kingdom of God. but flesh and bone can enter. that’s why in Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have”. did you see what was missing?, no BLOOD. because that spotless, and blemish blood was for the sins of the world.
conclusion. Whom the trinitarians calls their second person of their trinity is no more that the SAHARED spirit of the only true Spirit, “THE HOLY SPIRIT”. the one whom you call second person, is what the word of God calls the SHARED Person. Son is only a title of “THE HOLY SPIRIT” shared in flesh. and Father is only a title of same one HOLY SPIRIT not shared in flesh. hence the term “another”, Allos which expresses a numerical difference (that the plurality of God, the numerical difference, "Father", and "Son"), and denotes another of the same sort. sort meaning nature. so, twin.spin I hope we can work from this understanding and move forward. because we’re not that far apart. just some minor misunderstand which is easily corrected. ONE GOD, and ONE GOD ONLY, the SAME PERSON, ONLY SHARED, who worketh all in all. 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all”. same Spirit, same Lord, and the Lord is that Spirit, ("Now the Lord is that Spirit”, 2 Corinthians 3:17
a). see that word "NOW". now he that was in flesh and blood is "NOW", Spirit, with flesh and bone. that's why I know that the Alpha and Omega, is the first and the last. the book of Revelation is revealing who is was in that flesh and blood body that walked the earth with us.
Please re-read this post again, and get the meat in. thanks.
be blessed.
Your fooling yourself if you think you're not "far apart" from those of us who hold to the belief that God is the Triune God.
It's all or nothing standard ... God is triune, otherwise any belief of something other than the Triune God is to create a god in your own image.
This is the God that saves ... to believe in any other than this, this Deity God (the coined word used by the Apostle Paul) will send the false god worshipper to their damnation for their unbelief.
Your fooling yourself if you think you're not "far apart" from those of us who hold to the belief that God is the Triune God.
It's all or nothing standard ... God is triune, otherwise any belief of something other than the Triune God is to create a god in your own image.
This is the God that saves ... to believe in any other than this, this Deity God (the coined word used by the Apostle Paul) will send the false god worshipper to their damnation for their unbelief.
Your fooling yourself if you think you're not "far apart" from those of us who hold to the belief that God is the Triune God.
It's all or nothing standard ... God is triune, otherwise any belief of something other than the Triune God is to create a god in your own image.
This is the God that saves ... to believe in any other than this, this Deity God (the coined word used by the Apostle Paul) will send the false god worshipper to their damnation for their unbelief.
first off, if I'm a fool, let it be for Christ. I rather be a fool for Christ, that the world.
second, "It's all or nothing standard .. God is triune ". I tried to reason with you. Oh well.....
Third, the apostle Paul knew who the Lord Jesus is, (as savior)?, yes. scripture, Titus 2:10 "Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things”. God is saviour, now, Titus 2:13 in the same chapter, "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ". do you not say, God is the “Father”?, well!. what did the apostle Paul say, God is saviour, who is the Father. and the the God who saves, his name is Jesus Christ. so why is the apostle Paul calling the Lord Jesus the Christ God, who is Father in verse 13?. is not the savior God?, yes. and the apostle Paul just told us who the saving God is, "the Lord Jesus Christ". no, not a second person of some trinity, no. but the same person only shared. remember, it’s ONLY ONE GOD, and he is shared. NOT a SECOND PERSON, but the “SHARE”. maybe one day you will see it. but for now, those who have ears to hear let them hear. maybe this is not for you, twin.spin, (smile).
be blessed.
P.S I have a new symbol for you. crude, but effective, (smile).
Your fooling yourself if you think you're not "far apart" from those of us who hold to the belief that God is the Triune God.
It's all or nothing standard ... God is triune, otherwise any belief of something other than the Triune God is to create a god in your own image.
This is the God that saves ... to believe in any other than this, this Deity God (the coined word used by the Apostle Paul) will send the false god worshipper to their damnation for their unbelief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
Lol...
1 Corinthians 2:14 ...... is why God says your reaction is such.
first off, if I'm a fool, let it be for Christ. I rather be a fool for Christ, that the world.
second, "It's all or nothing standard .. God is triune ". I tried to reason with you. Oh well.....
Third, the apostle Paul knew who the Lord Jesus is, (as savior)?, yes. scripture, Titus 2:10 "Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things”. God is saviour, now, Titus 2:13 in the same chapter, "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ". do you not say, God is the “Father”?, well!. what did the apostle Paul say, God is saviour, who is the Father. and the the God who saves, his name is Jesus Christ. so why is the apostle Paul calling the Lord Jesus the Christ God, who is Father in verse 13?. is not the savior God?, yes. and the apostle Paul just told us who the saving God is, "the Lord Jesus Christ". no, not a second person of some trinity, no. but the same person only shared. remember, it’s ONLY ONE GOD, and he is shared. NOT a SECOND PERSON, but the “SHARE”. maybe one day you will see it. but for now, those who have ears to hear let them hear. maybe this is not for you, twin.spin, (smile).
be blessed.
P.S I have a new symbol for you. crude, but effective, (smile).
This is the only true God ... any other conception is from:
Matthew 24:11
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Matthew 24:24
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
2 Peter 2:1 [ False Teachers and Their Destruction ]
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among
you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who
bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
What you may call "reasoning", I see it as compromising the truth ... which I have no intention of doing.
This is the only true God ... any other conception is from:
Matthew 24:11
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Matthew 24:24
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
2 Peter 2:1 [ False Teachers and Their Destruction ]
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among
you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who
bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
What you may call "reasoning", I see it as compromising the truth ... which I have no intention of doing.
I'm not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. 2 Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition”. Just ask yourself, could, just possible, could the doctrine you hold might be that cause the falling away?. are you really, really sure that the doctrine you hold is the truth?. it just might not be the truth. NOW LETS STAY IN CHAPTER two. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie”. God is sending this delusion. not 101c. (smile). now here is the dilemma. if you’re right in your doctrine, then you’re ok. but,......but.....but, what if you’re wrong?, and 101c is correct?. think about it, Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith".
[1] Just ask yourself, could, just possible, could the doctrine you hold might be that cause the falling away?.
[2] are you really, really sure that the doctrine you hold is the truth?. it just might not be the truth....
Final answer:
[A1] No. It is the anti-Trinitarians who are the source of the division and are part of the great falling away that is spoken about.
[A2] Yes. I'm really, really sure that when God spoke in the singular plural in the OT and when the Triune God appeared to the human sight and sound at Jesus' baptism was not a lie.
The Father spoke --- 1 separate person
The Holy Spirit descended ---- 1 separate person
The Son was in the water ---- 1 separate person
yet not 3 Gods but 1 God
Yes. I'm confident that when the word " D E I T Y " was used in Colossians 2:9 it carried the same meaning as our coined word for " T R I N I T Y "
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