What Traditions? (Gospel, Epistles, doctrine, women)
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Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).
Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2).
What Paul actually said was;
2 Tim. 2:2The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
Of Paul's teaching to the Bereans, Luke writes;
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Quote:
He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).
For "Bible Only" Christians.
What traditions is Paul talking about?
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Hold the traditions which ye have been taught - The word παραδοσις, which we render tradition, signifies any thing delivered in the way of teaching; and here most obviously means the doctrines delivered by the apostle to the Thessalonians; whether in his preaching, private conversation, or by these epistles; and particularly the first epistle, as the apostle here states. Whatever these traditions were, as to their matter, they were a revelation from God; for they came by men who spake and acted under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit; and on this ground the passage here can never with any propriety be brought to support the unapostolical and anti-apostolical traditions of the Romish Church; those being matters which are, confessedly, not taken from either Testament, nor were spoken either by a prophet or an apostle. [Bolding mine] 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Commentaries: So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Matthew 15:3 And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Last edited by Michael Way; 04-01-2014 at 11:07 PM..
2 Tim. 2:2The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
Irrelevant.
Of Paul's teaching to the Bereans, Luke writes;
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Hold the traditions which ye have been taught - The word παραδοσις, which we render tradition, signifies any thing delivered in the way of teaching; and here most obviously means the doctrines delivered by the apostle to the Thessalonians; whether in his preaching, private conversation, or by these epistles; and particularly the first epistle, as the apostle here states. Whatever these traditions were, as to their matter, they were a revelation from God; for they came by men who spake and acted under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit; and on this ground the passage here can never with any propriety be brought to support the unapostolical and anti-apostolical traditions of the Romish Church; those being matters which are, confessedly, not taken from either Testament, nor were spoken either by a prophet or an apostle. [Bolding mine] 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Commentaries: So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
From: The Dictionary of Spiritual Terms:
paradosis (παραδοσις) (Language: Greek) Alternate Spellings:Short Description:transmission, tradition Long Description:transmission, tradition; e.g. Orpheos paradosis – the Orphic tradition.
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Matthew 15:3 And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Catholic Answers
Interestingly, though, a closer look at Acts 17:11 reveals that the people of Berea were not sola scriptura adherents at all. In actuality, they were primarily Jews converting to Christianity through Paul’s use of Sacred Tradition. Here’s the verse within its fuller context:
The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. (Acts 17:10-12)
The Bereans, were mainly Jews (and some Greeks), not Christians, and they even had a Jewish synagogue. The word they received was Paul’s teaching about Jesus! That same teaching which he sums up in his first letter to the Corinthians, "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3). The scriptures mentioned here by Paul are the same scriptures which the Bereans examined. The Old Testament scriptures. These were the only scriptures of the day, as no New Testament Scripture existed at the time. Most of the New Testament had not yet been written and what had been written had not yet been canonized so as to attain the status of Scripture. What we see here is a group of people being taught about Christianity by Paul prior to the existence of the New Testament. They eagerly listened to Paul while examining the Old Testament Scripture.
This all makes sense when we understand this event in its historical context. The event occurred during Paul’s second missionary journey. On his journeys Paul taught the good news of Christianity as Jesus had commissioned him to do. As a Jewish convert to Christianity himself, he knew Jewish Scripture well and he knew that it prophesied about Jesus. He undoubtedly explained this Scripture to enlighten other Jews about the truth of Christianity. These Jews would have to examine their Old Testament Scripture to see if what Paul was saying made sense. It did, and many Jews, including some of the Bereans, became Christians.
Good answer. The Bible is a good source for checking what has been taught on any subject and may or may not have bearing on a particulr subject under examination in the Spirit, just as what has been handed down in one organizations traditions may or may not be.
2 Tim. 2:2The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
Of Paul's teaching to the Bereans, Luke writes;
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Hold the traditions which ye have been taught - The word παραδοσις, which we render tradition, signifies any thing delivered in the way of teaching; and here most obviously means the doctrines delivered by the apostle to the Thessalonians; whether in his preaching, private conversation, or by these epistles; and particularly the first epistle, as the apostle here states. Whatever these traditions were, as to their matter, they were a revelation from God; for they came by men who spake and acted under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit; and on this ground the passage here can never with any propriety be brought to support the unapostolical and anti-apostolical traditions of the Romish Church; those being matters which are, confessedly, not taken from either Testament, nor were spoken either by a prophet or an apostle. [Bolding mine] 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Commentaries: So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Matthew 15:3 And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel A. Pettinicchio
Catholic Answers
Interestingly, though, a closer look at Acts 17:11 reveals that the people of Berea were not sola scriptura adherents at all. In actuality, they were primarily Jews converting to Christianity through Paul’s use of Sacred Tradition. Here’s the verse within its fuller context:
The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. (Acts 17:10-12)
The Bereans, were mainly Jews (and some Greeks), not Christians, and they even had a Jewish synagogue. The word they received was Paul’s teaching about Jesus! That same teaching which he sums up in his first letter to the Corinthians, "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3). The scriptures mentioned here by Paul are the same scriptures which the Bereans examined. The Old Testament scriptures. These were the only scriptures of the day, as no New Testament Scripture existed at the time. Most of the New Testament had not yet been written and what had been written had not yet been canonized so as to attain the status of Scripture. What we see here is a group of people being taught about Christianity by Paul prior to the existence of the New Testament. They eagerly listened to Paul while examining the Old Testament Scripture.
This all makes sense when we understand this event in its historical context. The event occurred during Paul’s second missionary journey. On his journeys Paul taught the good news of Christianity as Jesus had commissioned him to do. As a Jewish convert to Christianity himself, he knew Jewish Scripture well and he knew that it prophesied about Jesus. He undoubtedly explained this Scripture to enlighten other Jews about the truth of Christianity. These Jews would have to examine their Old Testament Scripture to see if what Paul was saying made sense. It did, and many Jews, including some of the Bereans, became Christians.
A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF 'SACRED TRADITION!'
Of course they weren't Christians at the time. That's why Paul was giving them the gospel. And the Bereans checked what Paul told them against the Old Testament Scriptures.
The point is that they did not simply take Paul's word for it but compared what he said with their existing written Scriptures to check the validity of what Paul had told them.
Barne's Notes on the Bible.
They received the word ... - They listened attentively and respectfully to the gospel. They did not reject and spurn it as unworthy of examination. This is the first particular in which they were more noble than those in Thessalonica.
Catholic Answers
Interestingly, though, a closer look at Acts 17:11 reveals that the people of Berea were not sola scriptura adherents at all. In actuality, they were primarily Jews converting to Christianity through Paul’s use of Sacred Tradition. Here’s the verse within its fuller context:
The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. (Acts 17:10-12)
The Bereans, were mainly Jews (and some Greeks), not Christians, and they even had a Jewish synagogue. The word they received was Paul’s teaching about Jesus! That same teaching which he sums up in his first letter to the Corinthians, "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3). The scriptures mentioned here by Paul are the same scriptures which the Bereans examined. The Old Testament scriptures. These were the only scriptures of the day, as no New Testament Scripture existed at the time. Most of the New Testament had not yet been written and what had been written had not yet been canonized so as to attain the status of Scripture. What we see here is a group of people being taught about Christianity by Paul prior to the existence of the New Testament. They eagerly listened to Paul while examining the Old Testament Scripture.
This all makes sense when we understand this event in its historical context. The event occurred during Paul’s second missionary journey. On his journeys Paul taught the good news of Christianity as Jesus had commissioned him to do. As a Jewish convert to Christianity himself, he knew Jewish Scripture well and he knew that it prophesied about Jesus. He undoubtedly explained this Scripture to enlighten other Jews about the truth of Christianity. These Jews would have to examine their Old Testament Scripture to see if what Paul was saying made sense. It did, and many Jews, including some of the Bereans, became Christians.
A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF 'SACRED TRADITION!'
Correct as to the Bereans and that specific account, however no provision was made for any new traditions beyond what the OT identified as associated with Christ and those TAUGHT by the Apostles and other Epistle writers. No other men have such authority, they just claim to.
No other traditions/teachings are needed.
Understanding the bible is, which takes a lot of effort, but no new traditions. Now Church can have traditions that are not associated with doctrine or are in anyway equated with Scripture such as meeting days, times,order of service, number of prayers, singing and such. These are organizational nor doctrinal.
Once someone claims to be able to establish new traditions as Biblical run very fast away from such. By their fruits you will know them and EVERY Church that has created such traditions is dripping in the blood of their own members and others. Internal and external wars and persecutions brand such as non spirit led. A clear indication of bad fruit from a bad tree.
Correct as to the Bereans and that specific account, however no provision was made for any new traditions beyond what the OT identified as associated with Christ and those TAUGHT by the Apostles and other Epistle writers. No other men have such authority, they just claim to.
No other traditions/teachings are needed.
Understanding the bible is, which takes a lot of effort, but no new traditions. Now Church can have traditions that are not associated with doctrine or are in anyway equated with Scripture such as meeting days, times,order of service, number of prayers, singing and such. These are organizational nor doctrinal.
Once someone claims to be able to establish new traditions as Biblical run very fast away from such. By their fruits you will know them and EVERY Church that has created such traditions is dripping in the blood of their own members and others. Internal and external wars and persecutions brand such as non spirit led. A clear indication of bad fruit from a bad tree.
I think many have run away from baptism, confession, and the Eucharist. All in the bible!
And how in the world did Christianity spread when the NT was not written yet?
Last edited by Julian658; 04-02-2014 at 02:31 PM..
Catholic Answers
Interestingly, though, a closer look at Acts 17:11 reveals that the people of Berea were not sola scriptura adherents at all. In actuality, they were primarily Jews converting to Christianity through Paul’s use of Sacred Tradition. Here’s the verse within its fuller context:
The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. (Acts 17:10-12)
The Bereans, were mainly Jews (and some Greeks), not Christians, and they even had a Jewish synagogue. The word they received was Paul’s teaching about Jesus! That same teaching which he sums up in his first letter to the Corinthians, "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3). The scriptures mentioned here by Paul are the same scriptures which the Bereans examined. The Old Testament scriptures. These were the only scriptures of the day, as no New Testament Scripture existed at the time. Most of the New Testament had not yet been written and what had been written had not yet been canonized so as to attain the status of Scripture. What we see here is a group of people being taught about Christianity by Paul prior to the existence of the New Testament. They eagerly listened to Paul while examining the Old Testament Scripture.
This all makes sense when we understand this event in its historical context. The event occurred during Paul’s second missionary journey. On his journeys Paul taught the good news of Christianity as Jesus had commissioned him to do. As a Jewish convert to Christianity himself, he knew Jewish Scripture well and he knew that it prophesied about Jesus. He undoubtedly explained this Scripture to enlighten other Jews about the truth of Christianity. These Jews would have to examine their Old Testament Scripture to see if what Paul was saying made sense. It did, and many Jews, including some of the Bereans, became Christians.
A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF 'SACRED TRADITION!'
Quote:
Interestingly, though, a closer look at Acts 17:11 reveals that the people of Berea were not sola scriptura adherents at all. In actuality, they were primarily Jews converting to Christianity through Paul’s use of Sacred Tradition. Here’s the verse within its fuller context:[indent]The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. (Acts 17:10-12)
Quote:
the people of Berea were not sola scriptura adherents at all.
Hold on there a moment. You are jumping to conclusions, and you don't seem to understand what Luke was actually 'saying.' Let's look at Acts 17 again:
10 ¶ And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the [1]word with all readiness of mind, and searched the [2]scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
There are two primary Greek words that describe Scripture which are translated word in the New Testament. The first, logos, refers principally to the total inspired Word of God and to Jesus, Who is the living Logos.
Biblical Examples of Logos
The following passages of Scripture give examples of the logos of God:
“In the beginning was the Word [logos], and the Word [logos] was with God, and the Word [logos] was God” (John 1:1).
“The seed is the word [logos] of God” (Luke 8:11).
“Holding forth the word [logos] of life” (Philippians 2:16).
“Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word [logos] of truth” (II Timothy 2:15).
“For the word [logos] of God is quick, and powerful” (Hebrews 4:12).
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word [logos] of God, which liveth and abideth forever” (I Peter 1:23).
[2] Scriptures, graphe
Scripture: The Greek word (graphe) occurs about 50 times in the NT and always refers to the written record of the utterances of God. This includes writings that make up both the Old and New Testaments.
So what Acts 17:10-12 is saying is Paul taught these men what was written in the Scriptures i.e from the Scriptures, and these same men, in turn, then searched the Scriptures for themselves to see if what Paul said was correct.
There's nothing in these verses that even comes close to mentioning/teaching 'oral tradition.'
I think many have run away from baptism, confession, and the Eucharist. All in the bible!
True, but many have also corrupted such.
Quote:
And in the world did Christianity spread when the NT was not written yet?
The "Bible" as in the OT existed and they used it. Then the NT writings, as they were circulated, became Scripture and they all knew they were inspired and used from day one. That stopped with John's writings. Many books were written and of value, just as the books of the Kings of Judah and Israel (Note not 1st and 2nd Kings) were referenced in Scripture, but not inspired, so too others were of some value, but not inspired. Then many were just fakes as to their claims.
The Jews had the same thing in their day and canonized (by a corrupt priesthood) the OT and still set aside others as "hidden" but still of some historical interest. That is how each book up until the last one of the OT was accepted. The NT was the same and it too had a last book. Men knew of them as they were written and circulated and could see the difference between inspired and not.
The NT was the same and men knew them and used them and ... finally a corrupt priesthood (several in fact) claimed inspiration because they claimed to have "canonized" what was already being used.
The "Bible" as in the OT existed and they used it. Then the NT writings, as they were circulated, became Scripture and they all knew they were inspired and used from day one. That stopped with John's writings. Many books were written and of value, just as the books of the Kings of Judah and Israel (Note not 1st and 2nd Kings) were referenced in Scripture, but not inspired, so too others were of some value, but not inspired. Then many were just fakes as to their claims.
The Jews had the same thing in their day and canonized (by a corrupt priesthood) the OT and still set aside others as "hidden" but still of some historical interest. That is how each book up until the last one of the OT was accepted. The NT was the same and it too had a last book. Men knew of them as they were written and circulated and could see the difference between inspired and not.
The NT was the same and men knew them and used them and ... finally a corrupt priesthood (several in fact) claimed inspiration because they claimed to have "canonized" what was already being used.
So men decided what was biblical?
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(παραδοσις) 
