Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"Recently, however, the homicide rate has stagnated.[12] While the homicide rate decreased continuously between 1991 and 2000 from 9.8 homicides per 100,000 persons to 5.5 per 100,000, it has remained level through 2005. In the years between 2000 and 2005 the homicide rate has remained at its all time low between 5.5 and 5.7 homicides per 100,000 individuals. Despite the recent stagnation of the homicide rate, however, property and violent crimes overall have continued to decrease, though at a considerably slower pace than in the 1990s.[12] Overall the crime rate in the US was the same in 2004 as in 1969, with the homicide rate being roughly the same as in 1966. Violent crime overall, however, is still at the same level as in 1974, despite having decreased steadily since 1991"
"Recently, however, the homicide rate has stagnated.[12] While the homicide rate decreased continuously between 1991 and 2000 from 9.8 homicides per 100,000 persons to 5.5 per 100,000, it has remained level through 2005. In the years between 2000 and 2005 the homicide rate has remained at its all time low between 5.5 and 5.7 homicides per 100,000 individuals. Despite the recent stagnation of the homicide rate, however, property and violent crimes overall have continued to decrease, though at a considerably slower pace than in the 1990s.[12] Overall the crime rate in the US was the same in 2004 as in 1969, with the homicide rate being roughly the same as in 1966. Violent crime overall, however, is still at the same level as in 1974, despite having decreased steadily since 1991"
Homocide rate is on par with what it was in the 1960's.
Maybe, but the number of firearms has increased greatly. If guns were the problem, crime would be much higher. It's not so lets stop blaming guns and go after the criminals and punish them!
It's not so lets stop blaming guns and go after the criminals and punish them!
Isn't it a bit simplistic to only hold the individual criminal responsible for their crimes? I think the question what causes an individual to commit crimes is more relevant than blaming the individual of having committed the crime.
In the Middle Ages the rich just kept upping the taxes and the poor were forced to commit crimes because they had no food and no money, since they had to pay the taxes first or be executed. So the rich just kept wasting resources because it was the poor who had to pay for the rich man's luxurious indulgences. The rich were completely oblivious to the consequences of their actions, or maybe they knew but just didn’t give a damn. To the rich it was only natural that they could indulge in their wealth and that the poor had to pay for it.
Isn't it a bit simplistic to only hold the individual criminal responsible for their crimes? I think the question what causes an individual to commit crimes is more relevant than blaming the individual of having committed the crime.
In the Middle Ages the rich just kept upping the taxes and the poor were forced to commit crimes because they had no food and no money, since they had to pay the taxes first or be executed. So the rich just kept wasting resources because it was the poor who had to pay for the rich man's luxurious indulgences. The rich were completely oblivious to the consequences of their actions, or maybe they knew but just didn’t give a damn. To the rich it was only natural that they could indulge in their wealth and that the poor had to pay for it.
Ridiculous.
These sentences "Isn't it a bit simplistic to only hold the individual criminal responsible for their crimes? I think the question what causes an individual to commit crimes is more relevant than blaming the individual of having committed the crime." are completely ridiculous.
Now the shooter's the victim and the 'system' is to blame.
Unreal.
I think it's about time we actually DO hold individuals responsible for their crimes. This is the kinda of 'pass the buck' mentality that has America where it is now. And you don't even like America, Tricky_D, yet you want to promote the kinds of ideals that created this monster you dislike.
Now the shooter's the victim and the 'system' is to blame.
You just proved my point.
I was trying to explain that a crime mostly is a symptom of a problem with current society; crime is not an individual problem, but a societal problem.
Whenever crime is considered a ‘necessary evil’ it is proof that there is something structurally wrong with society.
In the Middle Ages it was only natural that the poor (the powerless) had to pay for the rich man's (the powerful) mistakes (shortcomings).
So every time bread became too expensive because there wasn’t enough wheat flour for the general population a revolution followed.
It was a vicious circle with no change in sight. America truly is simplistic if their only answer is to build more prisons, or punish more severely, instead of improving the general living conditions of their citizens. But I guess that this is only how a Dutch citizen would try to solve the problem.
You just proved my point.
I was trying to explain that a crime mostly is a symptom of a problem with current society; crime is not an individual problem, but a societal problem.
Whenever crime is considered a ‘necessary evil’ it is proof that there is something structurally wrong with society.
In the Middle Ages it was only natural that the poor (the powerless) had to pay for the rich man's (the powerful) mistakes (shortcomings).
So every time bread became too expensive because there wasn’t enough wheat flour for the general population a revolution followed.
It was a vicious circle with no change in sight. America truly is simplistic if their only answer is to build more prisons, or punish more severely, instead of improving the general living conditions of their citizens. But I guess that this is only how a Dutch citizen would try to solve the problem.
With out reading the whole thread (my internet connection has been in and out) I don't understand why America is simplistic in your opinion. The whole premise of this country is that you can do or be whatever you want to be. Opportunity abounds here. There is no need for government to improve living conditions here, it's up to the individuals to do that for themselves. There are ample opportunities available here to better one's self, but it is not up to the government to make you do that for your self. That attitude is lazy in my opinion, and not what makes this country great. Crime is a symptom of undereducation and occaisionally mental disorder. To blame the circumstances that individuals create for themselves as the reason for crime is ridiculous and only feeds into the attitude that the criminal is really the victim, which I disagree with.
There is no need for government to improve living conditions here, it's up to the individuals to do that for themselves. There are ample opportunities available here to better one's self, but it is not up to the government to make you do that for your self.
I guess America and its citizens don't find the maintenance of their infrastructure that big of a deal then? Or is it that local government thinks it is the task of the federal government and the federal government thinks it is the local government’s?
Quote:
That attitude is lazy in my opinion, and not what makes this country great. Crime is a symptom of undereducation and occaisionally mental disorder. To blame the circumstances that individuals create for themselves as the reason for crime is ridiculous and only feeds into the attitude that the criminal is really the victim, which I disagree with.
Claiming that poor people are only poor because they lack the motivation to improve themselves and their living condition is simplistic and lazy thinking, and this simplicity has nothing to do with nationality. Claiming that poor people are poor because they have no education is another simplistic view. There is no relation between education and poverty. That would be the same as saying that poor people can only be stupid.
Quote:
Education is a supply-side policy; it improves the quality of workers, not the quality or the quantity of jobs. A danger of overreliance on education in the poverty debate is that skilled workers end up all dressed up with nowhere nice to go.
Source; http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?...re_for_poverty
The fact is that the poor are powerless compared to the rich and they certainly can be victimized by the rich and powerful. In fact this is how the powerful become powerful and rich.
TrickyD, you obviously have NO idea what America really is all about or how it is living here. Get real, live here at least 10 years then you can comment. Untill then you are speaking on hearsay and frankly you are not well informed.
Actually kawgpz, I have to respectfully agree to disagree. I don't think this is an act of mere religious rebellion. I think it is possible for parents to shove religion down a person's throat to the point of rebellion but not to the point of mass murder. No, I think there's something more to it. I can understand if the kid goes out and boozes it up because his parents were strict religiously, but going out and shooting up a crowd of people, there is something mentally wrong. I don't think parents can really influence their children to the point of mass murder by strict religion. That is, of course, unless they tell them it's the only way to get to heaven. The kid has to be able to distinguish between right and wrong but seems to also have been struggling with 'voices' telling him to do it. Personally, I think it must be absolute maddening to 'know' what is right and what you should do, only to have voices that sound so real telling you to kill a whole bunch of people. Could you imagine that?
I'm sorry it took almost a week for me to see this and respond. I've been really busy and haven't been on much lately.
GCS, you're probably right for the most part here. However, I HAVE seen kids that have been so overly indoctrinated by legalistic parents. You know, the type that basically make it impossible for a person to ever believe they will ever be worthy in God's eyes. There are those parents that try to use God in any way they can to keep their kids in line. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case here, but I have seen kids go off the deep end from the (perhaps well intended) wrong Christian upbringing.
It's true, this kid could very well have just had some sort of mental issue and had absolutely nothing to do with his Christian background. You're probably right...I don't think over zealous parents (solely) can be to blame for someone to commit mass murder. There had to be other underlying issues as well. The sad thing is...he is dead now and we will probably never know the real truth.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think the question what causes an individual to commit crimes is more relevant than blaming the individual of having committed the crime.
The rich were completely oblivious to the consequences of their actions, or maybe they knew but just didn’t give a damn. To the rich it was only natural that they could indulge in their wealth and that the poor had to pay for it.
You just proved my point.
America truly is simplistic if their only answer is to build more prisons, or punish more severely, instead of improving the general living conditions of their citizens.
But I guess that this is only how a Dutch citizen would try to solve the problem.
I've been really busy and haven't been on much lately. 
