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I'd say that there was a mindset of punishment and retribution, "justice," that forged circumstances which contributed to the rise of the National Socialist Party in Germany.
It's been a lot of years since I read this, but I believe it was theologian Paul Tllich who theorized that WWII had tribalized God, so that Americans in particular see God as in this country rather than this country as a part of God's world.
Was this during his work as a German Army Chaplain in WWI or his work with the Voice of America in WWII or in his Systematic Theology?
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Patriotism is important, but needs to be so far down on the flag pole in a church that it doesn't even show.
Once a year too much? Twice a year honoring our lost on Memorial Day too much?
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We have a people believing God is on our side, when we need Christians seeking to be on God's side in the war on poverty, the battle to obtain health care for all (which is what made Jesus different from a dozen other healing messiah's of His age ---He healed for free!!!), and the battle to open our church doors to all sinners, not just the sins we approve of.
Unless you're willing to get out there and make it happen, it's just words. Our church and 2 others sent 127 pounds of clothing to a Catholic church in Arizona for Central Americans. Is that not "Christians seeking to be on God's side in the war on poverty," enough for you?
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Instead we have an ineffective religion because we have changed the God of the world into a tribal God---and nowhere is the emasculation of God greater than in the fundamentalist churches who have turned Him into their very own warrior God and set about trying to use Him to destroy people and institutions they deem unworthy.
So ridiculous not even worth responding to.
Brother, it's not the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's or even Y2K anymore.
I was at one of several potlucks my wife and I visited today. I grabbed a Sam's Club Diet Cola out of someone's cooler. I pulled the tab, took a big swig, then spit it out. It was nothing but stale fizzy water. The flavor was gone. On the bottom of the can my wife read "Best used before XXX 2011." Times have and are changing rapidly, but unfortunately there are still those expired cans circulating out there waiting to be discarded.
Was this during his work as a German Army Chaplain in WWI or his work with the Voice of America in WWII or in his Systematic Theology?
Once a year too much? Twice a year honoring our lost on Memorial Day too much?
Unless you're willing to get out there and make it happen, it's just words. Our church and 2 others sent 127 pounds of clothing to a Catholic church in Arizona for Central Americans. Is that not "Christians seeking to be on God's side in the war on poverty," enough for you?
So ridiculous not even worth responding to.
Brother, it's not the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's or even Y2K anymore.
I was at one of several potlucks my wife and I visited today. I grabbed a Sam's Club Diet Cola out of someone's cooler. I pulled the tab, took a big swig, then spit it out. It was nothing but stale fizzy water. The flavor was gone. On the bottom of the can my wife read "Best used before XXX 2011." Times have and are changing rapidly, but unfortunately there are still those expired cans circulating out there waiting to be discarded.
I think Tillich wrote that sometime after 1933 when he was fired from his university professorship for lecturing and preaching against the Nazi regime.
Your responses would be less ridiculous if you would read Tillich's works, though I must warn you that his works require much deeper thought than "the Bible says."
And yes, once a year is too much flag waving for a church that wants to be dedicated to God. They should have no other love. The Nazis, you know, courted all the Christian denominations and got enough positive response to move their agenda along.
Flag wavers always proclaim war is about protecting our freedom, but we haven't been anything but a perpetrator since the Korean Conflict. I'm a Vietnam Marine Corps veteran, a volunteer at that, who was stationed on the DMZ in 1967, not far from the hellhole we called Con Thien, where hundreds of marines lost their lives. I arrived there to meet a former boot camp comrade who related to me how a few weeks before his unit had sent seven tanks into a village SUSPECTED of harboring Viet Cong. He personally observed the gunner in one of the other tanks machine gun down a pregnant woman running from a hut. Never heard that story did you--but that is what war and fear does to men. And other men sit at home and think it's all for God and country. Or how about this, the wounded Viet Cong brought into camp, foot mangled from a mortar round. One of our guys went into the mess tent and brought out a box of salt to help him remember where his weapon stash was. Can you hear his screams? I can. Then pray to your tribal god to keep our poor boys safe and able to put salt in the other guy's wounds.
Not every soldier or serviceman does those things, but I had only one other Christian friend with whom to get together about once a week. Most of our good ole' boys were using their free time to gamble or purchase the local poontang that flirted around our main base--that included many of the married men as well, for one of them told me he left his marriage license at the water's edge of California and would pick it up again when he got home. The "every soldier is a hero" crap today disgusts me as much as the "every soldier is a baby killer" crap did when I got home from Nam.
Tribal gods forgive our boys their piccadilos and "oops I murdered someones" while demonizing the other side.
You may not like it, but the fundamentalist churches have stood lock arm in supporting the government to launch wars that in the past 40 years have brought in huge profits for corporations like Haliburton that want war to continue lining their pockets--to the tune of eight corporations making more money on the current war than all other companies in all other wars combined. Fundamentalist churches have blessed the boys and held on to their marriage licenses until they came back home with limbs blown off or so addled that they commit suicide in atrocious numbers. And many of the more liberal churches have ignored them all together.
My father was a right wing politico fundamentalist Christian who felt Rush Limbaugh was a bit too leftist. But he was sitting in my living room when George W announced the beginning of hostilities with Iraq. Dad had served in Libya and Saudi Arabia during WWII, directing bomber flights in and out of an airfield. He said, "Son, I think the President has made a serious mistake starting this war. Those Arabs have known nothing but fighting for generations, and we will never bring peace to them." LOL, Dad died in 2005, but his prophecy lives on as Iraq has become like the man cleansed of an unclean spirit--having nothing to put in his heart, seven devils, worse than the one we executed, are about to come to power.
If you think war is a Christian endeavor Pastor Al, you must be smoking some of the junk that's raised here in Colorado. War is awful, awful, awful. Good men turn into murderous criminals and frequently no longer care about themselves or anyone else. So anytime you get up in the pulpit waving Old Glory, remember this marine who told you about the machine gunning of a pregnant woman, and the Viet Cong with the mangled foot getting salt poured on it. That was done in honor of Old Glory, too. Then praise your tribal god for us good ole' boys protecting your freedom 8000 miles away. After all it's the fundamentalist way!
As for me and my household we will pray to the God of all peoples and treat them as respectfully as anyone else. As a child of God, whether they know it or not. Because the important thing is--we know it, and we won't wave the flag of a tribal god while we treat them like we wish to be treated.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 07-05-2014 at 12:30 AM..
I think Tillich wrote that sometime after 1933 when he was fired from his university professorship for lecturing and preaching against the Nazi regime.
Your responses would be less ridiculous if you would read Tillich's works, though I must warn you that his works require much deeper thought than "the Bible says."
And yes, once a year is too much flag waving for a church that wants to be dedicated to God. They should have no other love. The Nazis, you know, courted all the Christian denominations and got enough positive response to move their agenda along.
Flag wavers always proclaim war is about protecting our freedom, but we haven't been anything but a perpetrator since the Korean Conflict. I'm a Vietnam Marine Corps veteran, a volunteer at that, who was stationed on the DMZ in 1967, not far from the hellhole we called Con Thien, where hundreds of marines lost their lives. I arrived there to meet a former boot camp comrade who related to me how a few weeks before his unit had sent seven tanks into a village SUSPECTED of harboring Viet Cong. He personally observed the gunner in one of the other tanks machine gun down a pregnant woman running from a hut. Never heard that story did you--but that is what war and fear does to men. And other men sit at home and think it's all for God and country. Or how about this, the wounded Viet Cong brought into camp, foot mangled from a mortar round. One of our guys went into the mess tent and brought out a box of salt to help him remember where his weapon stash was. Can you hear his screams? I can. Then pray to your tribal god to keep our poor boys safe and able to put salt in the other guy's wounds.
Not every soldier or serviceman does those things, but I had only one other Christian friend with whom to get together about once a week. Most of our good ole' boys were using their free time to gamble or purchase the local poontang that flirted around our main base--that included many of the married men as well, for one of them told me he left his marriage license at the water's edge of California and would pick it up again when he got home. The "every soldier is a hero" crap today disgusts me as much as the "every soldier is a baby killer" crap did when I got home from Nam.
Tribal gods forgive our boys their piccadilos and "oops I murdered someones" while demonizing the other side.
You may not like it, but the fundamentalist churches have stood lock arm in supporting the government to launch wars that in the past 40 years have brought in huge profits for corporations like Haliburton that want war to continue lining their pockets--to the tune of eight corporations making more money on the current war than all other companies in all other wars combined. Fundamentalist churches have blessed the boys and held on to their marriage licenses until they came back home with limbs blown off or so addled that they commit suicide in atrocious numbers. And many of the more liberal churches have ignored them all together.
My father was a right wing politico fundamentalist Christian who felt Rush Limbaugh was a bit too leftist. But he was sitting in my living room when George W announced the beginning of hostilities with Iraq. Dad had served in Libya and Saudi Arabia during WWII, directing bomber flights in and out of an airfield. He said, "Son, I think the President has made a serious mistake starting this war. Those Arabs have known nothing but fighting for generations, and we will never bring peace to them." LOL, Dad died in 2005, but his prophecy lives on as Iraq has become like the man cleansed of an unclean spirit--having nothing to put in his heart, seven devils, worse than the one we executed, are about to come to power.
If you think war is a Christian endeavor Pastor Al, you must be smoking some of the junk that's raised here in Colorado. War is awful, awful, awful. Good men turn into murderous criminals and frequently no longer care about themselves or anyone else. So anytime you get up in the pulpit waving Old Glory, remember this marine who told you about the machine gunning of a pregnant woman, and the Viet Cong with the mangled foot getting salt poured on it. That was done in honor of Old Glory, too. Then praise your tribal god for us good ole' boys protecting your freedom 8000 miles away. After all it's the fundamentalist way!
As for me and my household we will pray to the God of all peoples and treat them as respectfully as anyone else. As a child of God, whether they know it or not. Because the important thing is--we know it, and we won't wave the flag of a tribal god while we treat them like we wish to be treated.
Long post, but you are not making a valid point in trying to blame Christians for our wars. Politicians start wars, not churches, and there is nothing wrong with us praying for our servicemen while they are out there, no matter why they are out there.
Long post, but you are not making a valid point in trying to blame Christians for our wars. Politicians start wars, not churches, and there is nothing wrong with us praying for our servicemen while they are out there, no matter why they are out there.
Have you ever heard of Christian Zionism and what the mega church preachers like Hagee who DO have huge influence upon those who follow his beliefs have to say.
No there is nothing wrong in praying for our brave servicemen and women, and i do not think anyone said there was.
Was this during his work as a German Army Chaplain in WWI or his work with the Voice of America in WWII or in his Systematic Theology?
Once a year too much? Twice a year honoring our lost on Memorial Day too much?
Unless you're willing to get out there and make it happen, it's just words. Our church and 2 others sent 127 pounds of clothing to a Catholic church in Arizona for Central Americans. Is that not "Christians seeking to be on God's side in the war on poverty," enough for you?
So ridiculous not even worth responding to.
Brother, it's not the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's or even Y2K anymore.
I was at one of several potlucks my wife and I visited today. I grabbed a Sam's Club Diet Cola out of someone's cooler. I pulled the tab, took a big swig, then spit it out. It was nothing but stale fizzy water. The flavor was gone. On the bottom of the can my wife read "Best used before XXX 2011." Times have and are changing rapidly, but unfortunately there are still those expired cans circulating out there waiting to be discarded.
Firing half-cocked philosophical salvos loosely based on 60 year old unsubstantiated writings that claim to be the narrative of a 20th century truly great theologian of Protestant liberalism is unscholarly at best. That liberalism failed to forever change the landscape of Christianity and died at the end of the last century appears lost on you. I am convinced your goal is what post-modern liberal Richard Porty opined for liberalism-the creation of a “Christianity so wishy-washy that nobody will be interested in being a Christian any more.” What has made traditional Christianity appealing with today’s youth is its lack of the relativism found elsewhere in society. Viewing front and center a revolution of youth head over heels embracing our Savior with a heart filled with a robust gusto for Christian service should be met with like kind enthusiasm and warm the souls of the most hardened.
Yes it's no different than wars started by Muslim Fundamentalists
Extreme Fundamentalism of any kind is dangerous
Which war in US was launched purely for religious reasons? Someone mentioned Vietnam, but I am not sold on the idea, especially when no explanation was given.
Which war in US was launched purely for religious reasons? Someone mentioned Vietnam, but I am not sold on the idea, especially when no explanation was given.
none on US soil but the middle east wars are based on extreme religious views (and oil)
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