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They might be, but so what. It isn't who you love it is who you have sex with that is the issue. No one has to have sex. After all we (hopefully ) love members of the same sex, like mother and father, brother and sister.
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that's like saying we're all born talking.
It could also be like someone born colorblind or deaf. Normal to them, but not normal to mankind.
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fact is, it's a learned lifestyle choice. period.
The sex part, yes. That aspect is mental not simply physical. Just as those not homosexual can control who they have relations with, including none at all, so could someone with a homosexual desire. There is no requirement to have sex and no harm if one never has sex.
In fact if it was not controllable then a man could have sex with his father and it would just be a normal act he couldn't avoid. Oops, yes we can, just as it would be wrong for a man to have sex with his mother if he was straight.
You refuse to listen and accept the truth about the New Covenant ushered in by Christ, Twin. You keep pretending that WE are using our own judgments as arbiters . . . but we are using Christ who abides with us as the Comforter and agape love as the arbiter. Your lack of faith that Christ abides with us as the Living Word of God and your mistrust of what the Comforter guides us to in agape love . . . is a more serious lack of faith in Christ than the things you worry about . . . like homosexuality. You DEMAND that the Comforter never guide us to anything that is NOT in the "precepts and doctrines of men" you believe in. You make the Comforter irrelevant and redundant to your Bible rejecting the New Covenant entirely. In my world that is making the Bible more important than God or Christ. That IS idolatry.
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
It didn't but take the first two sentences to affirm that it is not I who is pretending.
Regrettably that does seem to be your problem, Twin . . . reading only certain sentences that confirm your pretenses. I would read it again and use ALL the sentences. Why do you reject the New Covenant ushered in by Christ??? Do you actually prefer the Old one???
Regrettably that does seem to be your problem, Twin . . . reading only certain sentences that confirm your pretenses. I would read it again and use ALL the sentences. Why do you reject the New Covenant ushered in by Christ??? Do you actually prefer the Old one???
I did read all ... just inadvertently wrote two instead of as many that it was.
Why do I reject that indwelling spirits perversion of what the New Covenant is according to God's written Word?
Because of something that indwelling spirit hopes for people not to do:
I did what the Bereans did .... compared the written Scriptures and confirmed this indwelling spirit is not from God when it conflicts with God's written Word.
I did what the Bereans did .... compared the written Scriptures and confirmed this indwelling spirit is perverting what the New Covenant is according to God's written Word
I did what the Bereans did .... compared the written Scriptures and confirmed this indwelling spirit it is hypocritical, blasphemous and looks for the unsuspecting
For those who are either genuinely aghast or cynically aghast (as I'm sure there will be vultures circling waiting) ... the New Covenant by Christ is this:
Jeremiah 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a newcovenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah."
culminating in this
Jeremiah 31:31 “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
This was fulfilled when this happened:
Luke 22:20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is thenewcovenantin my blood, which is poured out for you.
yes ...the New Covenant is the blood of Christ pour out for the forgiveness of sins.
Not the lie from the indwelling spirit message which claims agape love and repent when we are not towards one another. .
Last edited by twin.spin; 07-14-2014 at 05:52 PM..
Reason: spacing gremlins
You refuse to listen and accept the truth about the New Covenant ushered in by Christ, Twin. You keep pretending that WE are using our own judgments as arbiters . . . but we are using Christ who abides with us as the Comforter and agape love as the arbiter. Your lack of faith that Christ abides with us as the Living Word of God and your mistrust of what the Comforter guides us to in agape love . . . is a more serious lack of faith in Christ than the things you worry about . . . like homosexuality. You DEMAND that the Comforter never guide us to anything that is NOT in the "precepts and doctrines of men" you believe in. You make the Comforter irrelevant and redundant to your Bible rejecting the New Covenant entirely. In my world that is making the Bible more important than God or Christ. That IS idolatry.
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
It didn't but take the first two sentences to affirm that it is not I who is pretending.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Regrettably that does seem to be your problem, Twin . . . reading only certain sentences that confirm your pretenses. I would read it again and use ALL the sentences. Why do you reject the New Covenant ushered in by Christ??? Do you actually prefer the Old one???
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Why do I reject that indwelling spirits perversion of what the New Covenant is according to God's written Word?
Because of something that indwelling spirit hopes for people not to do:
I did what the Bereans did .... compared the written Scriptures and confirmed this indwelling spirit is not from God when it conflicts with God's written Word.
I did what the Bereans did .... compared the written Scriptures and confirmed this indwelling spirit is perverting what the New Covenant is according to God's written Word
I did what the Bereans did .... compared the written Scriptures and confirmed this indwelling spirit it is hypocritical, blasphemous and looks for the unsuspecting
For those who are either genuinely aghast or cynically aghast (as I'm sure there will be vultures circling waiting) ... the New Covenant by Christ is this:.
The New Covenant is This:
Hebrews 8:7-13 King James Version (KJV)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Now why do you not believe it? Why do you reject it? Why do you not trust what God has "written in our hearts and minds?" Why do you reject agape love and the guidance of the Comforter to the truth . . . in favor of the "precepts and doctrines of men" from the words "written in ink?"
Now why do you not believe it? Why do you reject it? Why do you not trust what God has "written in our hearts and minds?"
Because God knows that "every inclination of the heart is evil all the time"
"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander."
So whatever that indwelling spirit calms otherwise .. it's a lie to "trust the heart" no matter how often repeated.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Why do you reject agape love and the guidance of the Comforter to the truth . . . in favor of the "precepts and doctrines of men" from the words "written in ink?"
Because that indwelling spirit's purpose is to speak it's natural language ... lies \ half-truths and perversion of the truth (even if being no more than in context)
All you do here is to attempt to get people upset enough to get them to say something that confirms what you think is your intellectual superiority over the written Scriptures ... and I will do whatever possible not to give you that satisfaction. I will continue to quote the written Scripture for what it is ..as the absolute truth, the inerrant Word of God which as God says will destroy the wisdom of the naysayers.
So stop asking why ... for I will trust the dynamite of God's Word which is found in the Bible, not in something that is affected by indigestion and flatus.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Now why do you not believe it? Why do you reject it? Why do you not trust what God has "written in our hearts and minds?" Why do you reject agape love and the guidance of the Comforter to the truth . . . in favor of the "precepts and doctrines of men" from the words "written in ink?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Because God knows that "every inclination of the heart is evil all the time"
"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander."
So whatever that indwelling spirit calms otherwise .. it's a lie to "trust the heart" no matter how often repeated.
Because that indwelling spirit's purpose is to speak it's natural language ... lies \ half-truths and perversion of the truth (even if being no more than in context)
So the scripture I quoted that says God has "written in our minds and hearts" under the New Covenant is lies and NOT to be trusted???? The scripture about the Comforter teaching us all truth is lies and NOT to be trusted??? Tell me, Twin do you trust these verses???
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Ar they lies and NOT to be trusted despite that we are have trust through Christ??? Given what they say about the written word and the letter . . . how can you rely on them and NOT rely on the Comforter and what God has "written in our hearts" in agape love? Do you love, Twin? Do you know what agape love IS? Can you tell when something is agape loving and when it is not?? God would not require us to be scholars to know Him and His agape love. It is "written in our hearts" by God Himself and we have the Comforter abiding with us to guides us.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Now why do you not believe it? Why do you reject it? Why do you not trust what God has "written in our hearts and minds?" Why do you reject agape love and the guidance of the Comforter to the truth . . . in favor of the "precepts and doctrines of men" from the words "written in ink?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Because God knows that "every inclination of the heart is evil all the time"
"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander."
So whatever that indwelling spirit calms otherwise .. it's a lie to "trust the heart" no matter how often repeated.
Because that indwelling spirit's purpose is to speak it's natural language ... lies \ half-truths and perversion of the truth (even if being no more than in context)
So the scripture I quoted that says God has "written in our minds and hearts" under the New Covenant is lies and NOT to be trusted???? The scripture about the Comforter teaching us all truth is lies and NOT to be trusted??? Tell me, Twin do you trust these verses???
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Are they lies and NOT to be trusted despite that we have trust through Christ??? Given what they say about the written word and the letter . . . how can you rely on them and NOT rely on the Comforter and what God has "written in our hearts" in agape love? Do you love, Twin? Do you know what agape love IS? Can you tell when something is agape loving and when it is not?? What does your heart tell you about homosexuality? Is it agape loving?
God would not require us to be Bible scholars to know Him and His agape love. It is "written in our hearts" by God Himself and we have the Comforter abiding with us to guide us.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 07-14-2014 at 07:33 PM..
Here is a bit of my life and experience with the so-called fundamentalists that populate the Deep South.
Assume this is true:
I come from a Pentecostal / Nondenominational / Evangelical / Southern Baptist background. (I've attended many different churches in my time here.) They all seem to share the same basic set of beliefs. One, God is real and you can actually get to know Him personally. This "personally" may seem like a strange concept to some, but it is a big part of the mindset of everything that is preached. If you sin, you've not only hurt yourself, but you've offended God. If you do something that displeases other people for the sake of honoring God, you shouldn't worry about it. Two, God is your only advocate; people aren't to be trusted. You live your life to please God, not man. You may have to say no to many friends and upset people with your words, but it is for God; it is for the ultimate good. Three, the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Everything that it says is what God says. Four, you learn God's voice by reading and learning the Bible.
I think I've encountered signs that Pentecostals refer to as pertaining to the Spirit, or "The Presence of God" such an amazing feeling, a set of discernable physical sensations, accompanies it sometimes. To some, this feeling indicates that God is with them. It's hard to describe. It's like we believe and physically feel that Christ is inside us. There are also usually stories of peculiar happenings, healings and miracles of diverse kinds that took place, or are still taking place, among the congregation and in the larger world. There are networks of stories, millions or more of them. It often feels like we live in another world, one different than the one we are usually aware of. In this other world incurable diseases are cured by prayer and faith in God. The future is often known. An inaccessible God becomes so real that you can touch Him and feel Him touching you.
To make this conviction the people seem to have even more believable, the people often follow many small rules that they claim they feel convicted to follow, such as not drinking alcohol, wearing ultra-modest clothing, not raising their voices, and many other small rules that are indeed in the Bible or are at least believed to be. Some take this further, though,and in their conviction, prescribe their lifestyle to others who don't share their zeal. Needless to say, unless you carefully examine them and understand from where their convictions stem, you may think of them as picky and overly religious. Sometimes, I do wonder where the balance lies.
There are some who try to love God so much that they seem to ignore that they seem to be condemning people,and there are others who seem just as zealous to accept all people that they forget their own convictions. In a world like ours, our convictions are the most important things, because we believe they are our only way to maintain a real experience with God. Without the living proof of Christ, what would we have? What reason would we have to fight or keep the faith alive? It's not about tradition. Sometimes our neighbor's conviction are vastly different from our own, and if this were about pleasing people, this would not be going on. We trust and treasure our convictions and the experiences we believe we've had with God.
I wonder, though, how does a person who was raised like this fit into the world as most know it? Do we pretend that knowing God is something personal and private, something that everyone has to find for himself or herself, or do we try to throw it onto people like a joyful poor man may throw burried treasure to his fellows and friends? After seeing attempts at "witnessing" for Christ and that experience fail again and again, I think the answer is that perhaps it is best to take no middle ground. Either tear up the world with your zeal or remain silent as stone. Hypocrisy kills anyone's faith.
I wish I could introduce everyone to that experience of faith, though. Maybe if you knew the experience as some of us have known it, you would have a different perspective of what the person on the side of the road with the sign bearing in blood red paint, "Repent or Perish" really intends.
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