The Restoration of All to God (Biblical Perspective)

[ShanaBrown]

Some have taught that Jesus preached the gospel in hell, giving a second
chance to souls
who rejected the gospel when they were living on earth.
Hebrews 9:27 forbids this idea and no Scripture supports it.

God is not about giving second chances. It isn't about chance at all. It is about God reconciling and restoring all to Himself, delivering all out of sin and death, subjecting all to Himself so that He may be all in all. His will will be done. He does not bow to the will of man. Rebellion and rejection are only temporary conditions because we know that He will subject, subdue all things to Himself. He has promised this, so there is nothing about chance here at all.


PS 22:27 "All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him..."

Isaiah 45
Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23
“I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24
“They will say of Me, ‘Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.’
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
25
“In the Lord all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory(NASB)



Many will be humbled, destroyed, condemned, and in the end, they will return and swear allegiance to Him.




God bless.

[Jrhockney]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Nope ... not kidding.

As one our theologians said concerning Christ's descent into hell in a Q\A (in part)
| Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod - (complete answer in the link)

Some have taught that Jesus preached the gospel in hell, giving a second chance to souls
who rejected the gospel when they were living on earth. Hebrews 9:27 forbids this idea and no Scripture supports it.

Some have speculated that Jesus descended into an underworld borderland, a “limbo,” to
release righteous souls somehow unable to enter heaven until the work of atonement was
completed. There is no Bible support for this idea either.

Jesus descended to preach or proclaim his victory over hell and the devil. This idea is not only
compatible with 1 Peter 3 and the rest of Scripture, but may be the subject of Colossians 2:15
as well. “Making a public spectacle of” and “triumphing over” the inhabitants of hell in view of
his triumph on the cross is Christ’s dramatic way of affirming his victory and leaving no doubt
that the gospel of redemption and salvation stands firm despite ridicule and rejection through
unbelief.

Wisconsin Synod?...That might explain a few things.... Back in the day, you guys were considered ultra conservative even by my very conservative Christian parents.

But anyways....your saying that this passage is implying that he went to hell to gloat to the pre-flood "powers and authorities" about what he just did somehow making a hellbased "public" spectacle out of them?...Not only does that not sound like Jesus, that doesn't even sound....sportsmanlike! lol ;p

No, but seriously, I see where you got the idea, but even the guy on your website said "may be the subject of Colossians 2:15 as well" showing he's not even 100% sure either...and neither should you be especially when considering the spirits Jesus supposedly preached to where from before the flood. Equating them with the "Powers and Authorities" of this verse is still quite a stretch in my option.
Many other commentaries do seem to think he as referring to spiritual powers in this verse so I won't consider that idea as being out of the question.

[ShanaBrown]

I am not sharing an evil theory Snowball. I am sharing my beliefs based on scriptural revelations. If you believe that the power of God to restore all to Himself is evil, well I feel sorry for you.

What a sad way to view the power of God to subject all to Himself, the power of God to one day become all in all, to one day deliver all human beings of sin and death.

What a sad way to view the power of God to cause all to see the destructiveness of sin and to bring all to their knees in recognition of their need for him.

What a sad way to view the power of God to cause all to repent and see that they were wrong.

There will be destruction. There will be judgment. There will be pain, sorrow, trouble, torment but all leads to the goal of God becoming all in all as described in 1 Cor. 15

God loves us and He will do whatever it takes to restore us to Himself. And He does not fail.

ISA 46:


Remember this, and be assured;
Recall it to mind, you transgressors.
9
“Remember the former things long past,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
10
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
11
Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man of My purpose from a far country.
Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass.
I have planned it, surely I will do it.



God bless.

[Snowball7]

Men can lose their souls. For what does it profit a man if he
gains the whole world but loses his soul ? Christ spoke of damnation,
where the worm dieth not. He spoke of greivous consequences
including eternal damnation for the wicked.
It is wicked to mislead yourself and others into believing a lie.
The restoration of all things does not mean evil will be somehow
preserved yet converted to good. It means evil will perish, and
the sons of satan will perish. PERISH. Not somehow maintain
their individual qualities and turn into happy eternal souls
in the divine presence.
That is all I've had to say and I'm sure there are plenty of well-grounded
Christians reading this who know that your theories are deleterious to
the common good and scripturally unsound.

[ShanaBrown]

Yes, people can lose their souls, Snowball. Yes, there will be damnation but not eternal damnation because the scriptures say that all are to be reunited in Jesus Christ. Evil perishes yes and evil men perish, yes, the scriptures still say that all of creation is to be delivered and changed into the glorious freedom of the children of God. All will one day swear allegiance to Him. I didn't say this. God has revealed this in the scriptures. Many believers in the early days of the church understood this based on the scriptures. I can't dismiss what I believe and understand to be presented in the scriptures. You don't have to accept it but why should I be told that I am presenting an evil theory, that I am doing something wicked, when it is something that I understand the scriptures to teach after much prayer and prayers for guidance? Many believers, many considered to be fathers in the early church also saw this as presented in the scriptures. There are many well grounded Christians who also believe this today.


God bless.

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Jrhockney

Wisconsin Synod?...That might explain a few things.... Back in the day, you guys were considered ultra conservative even by my very conservative Christian parents.

But anyways....your saying that this passage is implying that he went to hell to gloat to the pre-flood "powers and authorities" about what he just did somehow making a hellbased "public" spectacle out of them?...Not only does that not sound like Jesus, that doesn't even sound....sportsmanlike! lol ;p

No, but seriously, I see where you got the idea, but even the guy on your website said "may be the subject of Colossians 2:15 as well" showing he's not even 100% sure either...and neither should you be especially when considering the spirits Jesus supposedly preached to where from before the flood. Equating them with the "Powers and Authorities" of this verse is still quite a stretch in my option.
Many other commentaries do seem to think he as referring to spiritual powers in this verse so I won't consider that idea as being out of the question.

If you'd read other answers in the Q\A from other theologians \ professors from our Pastoral \ Teacher college, I would suspect that you're reading more into the word "may" for instance James Pope, professor at Martin Luther College, New Ulm, Minn answered the question this way (in part): | Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (full answer in the link)

Jesus descended into hell to proclaim (“preach”) his victory over Satan, sin and death. He did
not descend into hell to suffer for sin or to release people from a limbo. He proclaimed victory.
That is the imagery behind a second Scripture passage associated with Jesus’ descent into
hell. Colossians 2:15—“And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.”

Considering that when Jesus comes again is compared to that like of the people of the days of Noah, I would be inclined to agree with our theologians (even if he used the word "may") when we know Jesus will in fact do that very thing to all the evil doers \ unbelievers at the Final Judgment.

And thankfully, the Wisconsin Synod (WELS) \ Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS) and the other Lutheran church bodies around the world that we're in fellowship with \ and for the ost part LCMS are still conservative which means most closely to what scriptures teaches.

[ShanaBrown]

More notes on the lake of fire:

"While the "lake of fire" is indeed a place of divine judgment, it is where all men learn the character of God. Even believers today are in training by means of the baptism of fire. We are trained now in order to obtain a better and earlier resurrection. He is the Savior of all men, especially those who believe.This "fire" is also the glory of God which came down upon Sinai and which will ultimately cover the whole earth (Num. 14:21). God will be glorified, and every creature in heaven and in earth will be found praising Him when the four beasts finally say "Amen."
-http://gods-kingdom-ministries.net/daily-weblogs/2010/11-2010/romans-5-part-7-the-depths-of-gods-love/


God bless.

[Jrhockney]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

If you'd read other answers in the Q\A from other theologians \ professors from our Pastoral \ Teacher college, I would suspect that you're reading more into the word "may" for instance James Pope, professor at Martin Luther College, New Ulm, Minn answered the question this way (in part): | Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (full answer in the link)

Jesus descended into hell to proclaim (“preach”) his victory over Satan, sin and death. He did
not descend into hell to suffer for sin or to release people from a limbo. He proclaimed victory.
That is the imagery behind a second Scripture passage associated with Jesus’ descent into
hell. Colossians 2:15—“And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.”

Considering that when Jesus comes again is compared to that like of the people of the days of Noah, I would be inclined to agree with our theologians (even if he used the word "may") when we know Jesus will in fact do that very thing to all the evil doers \ unbelievers at the Final Judgment.

And thankfully, the Wisconsin Synod (WELS) \ Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS) and the other Lutheran church bodies around the world that we're in fellowship with \ and for the ost part LCMS are still conservative which means most closely to what scriptures teaches.

Even reading that link, it still mostly sounds like a bunch of guess work to me based more upon theology than the bible. It even sounds like Martin Luther himself was uncertain and mostly guessing, but hey, I'm no Lutheran theologian But for the sake of my history playing music at countless Lutheran Churches through a long time ago, I'll leave in "slight possibility" status for now since I'm out of forum time today...We never once got to play once at a Wisconsin Synod church...what gives?!

[mensaguy]

This thread has gone way past bizarre. Closed.