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Good replies! I have to believe that baptism is more than just an outward expression of ones faith...if that is all it is, I would have little interest in it as then it would have litte meaning or purpose. There are a 1000 other ways we could express our faith, if that is what we wanted to do. I wonder if it does something on the inside of a person...way down in our spirit. But...I'm not at a point where I can say "that's it! that's it!....this is exactly what baptism does!".
Jesus took on the sin of all mankind. Did He then take and bury that sin in the waters of baptism...OUR sin....washed away...in the eyes of God? Hmmm....just a thought.
BudinArk, what about people who may be believers who may not be near water to be baptized or what about the person who is a believer but may be killled on the way to being baptized? Do you believe that these people are lost? Just wondering. God bless.
BudinArk, what about people who may be believers who may not be near water to be baptized or what about the person who is a believer but may be killled on the way to being baptized? Do you believe that these people are lost? Just wondering. God bless.
Nope...I don't believe baptism is REQUIRED to be saved....
When Jesus requested baptism of John, as I recall, John was hesitant to do it and Jesus replied,"Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." (Matthew 3:15 NASB) I'm not sure exactly all that He meant by that, but it sounds like there was some semblance of doing it as maybe an example, or maybe as a "prototype." Am I making any sense? Hard to explain exactly what I mean here, but it seems obvious that He had no sin and for Him personally, it had nothing to do with remission of sin for Him.
Kaykay,
I posted this in another thread but Ill just post this here as well. Forgive me if I am slow in replying.
Sounds like you guys are on the right track. However, it is so much more than just a symbol, it is a command, and therefore essential to our salvation. Consider this:
The type and shadow of baptism:
The Jewish priest, when entering the tabernacle or performing their duty, had to wash at the laver that stood before the door of the tabernacle.
"When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the Lord:" (Ex. 30:20).
This along with the other duties of the priest were commandments of the Lord, sacrifice, washing, burning incense, etc. (You may already know this but it doesn't hurt to refresh).
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This helps us understand why it is essential for us to be baptized (Mark 16:16) and also helps us understand why Jesus was baptized. We must fulfill all righteousness. What was required of them is, in essence, now required of us.
"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him" (Matt. 3:15).
"becometh" - G4241
πρέπω
(prepo ̄) (prep'-o)
(Apparently a primary verb; to tower up (be
conspicuous), that is, (by implication) to be suitable
or proper (third person singular present indicative,
often used impersonally, it is fit or right): -
become, comely.)
So it is suitable, proper, or right for us to be baptized.
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Baptism cannot be left out:
Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 5:3).
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It matters also into what name we are baptized. Just as the apostles commanded, we must be baptized in Jesus' name. This is what the Bible commands. Understanding God's name, which is the name of His family also (Eph. 3:14-15), is essential to understanding Matt. 28:19.
Jesus told them to baptize in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Peter and the apostles knew of what name He spoke of, so they baptized as instructed. Throughout the book of Acts, we see the recurring theme of the apostles baptizing into only one Name. I don't know if you have ever really noticed, but there is no other water baptism recorded in the entire Bible after Jesus' resurrection other than people being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
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Jesus commanded the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. He knew they understood what that meant, and they went and baptized in His name, and only His name, as we must do all things in His name. The apostles, taught by Jesus and led by the Holy Ghost, made clear to us what Jesus meant when He commanded them that.
Peter, as instructed by Jesus, who had been given the keys to the Kingdom, bound on earth and in heaven (Matt. 16:18-20) what men must do to be saved. Repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38), and He followed this up by commanding the same thing to the gentiles (Acts 10:34-48). This, of course, takes into consideration that we must obey the rest of the scriptures,
believing on Him, His death, burial, resurrection, etc.
Again, We must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ because this is what is established (bound) not only on earth but also in heaven, for men to be saved. This is established through the words of Peter given to Him by Jesus through the Holy Ghost. These words are now part of the Word of God, Jesus Christ, which is the Rock on which the church is built. The gates of hell shall not prevail against His church, but we must be built on that Rock.
In Jesus,
Daniel.
PS: 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
Jesus saves us, absolutely, but to be saved we must do all that His word commands. Acts 2:38 says that baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins. This word remission appears here (Matthew 26:28) connected with Jesus' blood being shed for the remission of sins.
Consider this:
"But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water" (John 19:34).
The blood and the water were joined together and not separate. So does the water, too, represent the living water flowing out of our belly, the Spirit of God (John 7:38).
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one" (1 John 5:7-8).
BudinArk, what about people who may be believers who may not be near water to be baptized or what about the person who is a believer but may be killled on the way to being baptized? Do you believe that these people are lost? Just wondering. God bless.
[SIZE=2]This question is posed many, many times to people who do not waiver on the necessity of baptism for us to be saved. I cannot answer more vehemently than with the Words of Christ.
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
Now I have seen those in wheelchairs baptized. That is to say, our God is large enough to allow a person to fulfill all righteousness that is seeking to do so.
I have witnessed testimony of one attempting a "death bed repentance". One laying in a hospital, cried out to the Lord knowing that she would be lost, feeling the "life" drain out of her. She told me that the "life", the "warmth" returned to her body and she fell asleep. She later woke up, since has been baptized and filled with the Spirit.
God is big enough to instruct us into righteousness and allow us to take place in His plan of salvation. (Acts 10 - Cornelius, Peter was sent by an angel to instruct Cornelius on what else He must do to be saved. The Bible describes Cornelius as a devote man, but something was missing. Peter instructed Him into righteousness. Acts 8:26-40 - The Eunuch, Philip ran to the chariot, sent by the Spirit.) The Lord sends His people to those who seek Him.
His Word already commands us to be baptized. Is there a situation recorded where someone wanting to be saved could not be baptized? Otherwise, it is hypothetical and certainly not biblical.
Jesus tells us in His word that: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame" (Rev. 16:15).
We had better be ready when our death comes or He returns. God would have none of us be lost, and if we cry out to Him, He will save us, fulfilling all righteousness.
lets not forget that baptism, is an act humilty. Jesus was obediant to show us, and he humbled himself before John. John knew he he not worthy to baptise Jesus but was obediant to fullfill the commandment unto righteouness.
[SIZE=2]This question is posed many, many times to people who do not waiver on the necessity of baptism for us to be saved. I cannot answer more vehemently than with the Words of Christ.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Now I have seen those in wheelchairs baptized. That is to say, our God is large enough to allow a person to fulfill all righteousness that is seeking to do so. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]I have witnessed testimony of one attempting a "death bed repentance". One laying in a hospital, cried out to the Lord knowing that she would be lost, feeling the "life" drain out of her. She told me that the "life", the "warmth" returned to her body and she fell asleep. She later woke up, since has been baptized and filled with the Spirit. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]God is big enough to instruct us into righteousness and allow us to take place in His plan of salvation. (Acts 10 - Cornelius, Peter was sent by an angel to instruct Cornelius on what else He must do to be saved. The Bible describes Cornelius as a devote man, but something was missing. Peter instructed Him into righteousness. Acts 8:26-40 - The Eunuch, Philip ran to the chariot, sent by the Spirit.) The Lord sends His people to those who seek Him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]His Word already commands us to be baptized. Is there a situation recorded where someone wanting to be saved could not be baptized? Otherwise, it is hypothetical and certainly not biblical. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Jesus tells us in His word that: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame" (Rev. 16:15).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]We had better be ready when our death comes or He returns. God would have none of us be lost, and if we cry out to Him, He will save us, fulfilling all righteousness.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]In Jesus,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Daniel.[/SIZE]
Not long ago I had a very good friend who was a beloved school teacher ..He developed an aorta aneurysm and was immediately put in the hospital..He was a christian, but never "joined" his wife's church by being baptized the way that church believed, (even though he had been baptized by another church years before)..Anyway as he was awaiting emergency surgery, the preacher and elders of the church where he attended came and thumped him pretty hard with Acts 2:38, and other verses in Acts.. Because the wife was crying the man agreed to be baptized..against the judgement of the Drs that it would be life threatening to move this patient, let alone take him downstairs and completly submerge him in the bapistry} The man suffered death from the burst aneurysm as they were attempting to put him back on the gurney after submerging him in the water..The preacher said "praise God, we got him baptized in time"..His wife said she was comforted by the fact that her husband was in heaven instead of hell, because he was baptised right..This and many other legalistic reasoning is why I am no longer a member of that particular non denominational church that has a sign over the door saying it was established in 33ad..
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-01-2008 at 12:07 PM..
Reason: content
Kaykay, I feel you are correct in that Jesus insisted on John baptizing him as an example of what is right. Jesus was without sin, but he fulfilled all the forms of ritual and performed the demonstrations of faith that are expected of all believers.
Baptism is not an action to remit sin, but is a demonstration of how sin has been remitted as if washed away.
I agree you 100% mams. There is no saving power in Baptism. Only Jesus!
yet Jesus said, suffer it now. It becomes us to fulfill all righteousness. When John the baptist pressed him to not be baptized by him.....
There is much more to the gospel, than salvation....
There is holiness, godliness, righteousness, perfection. Though many are called to these attributes, few there be that find them. Due to unbelief...
godspeed,
freedom
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