Can A Backsliding-Christian Lose His Salvation? Or Is He Forever Saved? (Epistles, hell)

[Swampmonster]

Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx

Salvation is not a light switch, it is a journey one must walk. The Acripture says the heavens rejoice when one who starts from the flock returns, so also is the fact that we must return to the flock to be covered by the shepherd.

^this is what I believe also..I think one CAN lose your salvation by being in a "backsliden" state,but the repentance brings the prodigal son back into his father's fold.

[Peacegiver]

Ezekiel 18;
20 The person who sins shall die. A child shall not suffer for the iniquity of a parent, nor a parent suffer for the iniquity of a child; the righteousness of the righteous shall be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be his own.
21 But if the wicked turn away from all their sins that they have committed and keep all my statutes and do what is lawful and right, they shall surely live; they shall not die.
22 None of the transgressions that they have committed shall be remembered against them; for the righteousness that they have done they shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, and not rather that they should turn from their ways and live?
24 But when the righteous turn away from their righteousness and commit iniquity and do the same abominable things that the wicked do, shall they live? None of the righteous deeds that they have done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which they are guilty and the sin they have committed, they shall die.

[hunterseat]

Only God knows our hearts. I think if we are truly saved, we will not turn away forever. We all sin daily and a sin by any other name smells as putrid in the nose of God. Eternal salvation is eternal.

[janelle144]

Even Saint Paul thought he could lose his salvation and needed to be steadfast to the end. If he thought that way I better think that way.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

We are ALL saved from eternal separation from God. But that does nothing to relieves us of the obligation to reap whatever we sow and have not repented of. We WILL reap what we sow . . . but no more and no less than we sow. Christians who are sanctified under Christ's love for us all through practicing "love of God and each other" daily and repenting when they don't will minimize any reaping. Those who are not will have the non-love refined out as dross in the consuming fire of God's pure love after death. It will not be pleasant . . . but we are all "saved as by fire."

Originally Posted by Heart_Song

Truth, beautifully and clearly expressed.
╰⊰✿ -------╰⊰✿ ------╰⊰✿

Originally Posted by .sparrow.

"Truth, beautifully and clearly expressed." - Absolutely! That's exactly what I thought after reading Mystic's post.

Thank you, sisters! The truth of Christ IS beautiful indeed! Too bad so many seem not to get it.

[ScarletWren]

Originally Posted by janelle144

Even Saint Paul thought he could lose his salvation and needed to be steadfast to the end. If he thought that way I better think that way.

Paul said he could lose his rewards.........think, if salvation is a gift, not something we earned or could brag about getting, how could our works, in any way shape or form earn or lose us salvation. The reward is not our salvation, that is what was purchased by the blood of Christ on the cross. But scripture DOES speak of reward and loss......ruling and reigning with and under Christ in the Kingdom......for a time BEFORE all power and authority is subdued and subjected to the Father, when even Christ is no longer ruling but God is all in all. THAT is what the striving and works are for. We are God's workmanship.........not our own.....what good works we do were foreordained that we walk in them. Not every one in the kingdom is a ruler or who is there to rule over? There is a firstfruits who will help usher in the new and glorious age or ages until all creation experiences the liberty and freedom from sin that the sons of God experience in the first order of resurrection. There will be gnashing of teeth when many Chrisitans share in the lake of fire with non believers and miss or serve a subservient role in the Kingdom age. THIS makes sense......the Jews did not think about eternity, they looked for that age when they would rule the world alongside the Messiah....as Martha believed about her brother Lazarus........that he would live again to see that age........this is not to say that they didn't believe in immortality, but that this was their hope. to see Israel in an even more glorious place in the world than it was during the time of King David.....this was their dream......to be part of that glorious age......this is what the thief was speaking about when he asked Christ to be with Him in His Kingdom....not some place up in the far beyond. And Christ promised the thief that day, that he would be with Him in the kingdom, but that doesn't necessarily mean he would have a place of authority for it takes mature sons to be rulers. But this is getting far afield of what I wanted to convey. After years of brainwashing we see no problem with grace being unmerited favor and then leaven it with having to live and do the 'right' thing. But when we understand grace guarantees us resurrection from the grave for all but rewards are conditional on service, as those obedient and profitable servants of Christ's parable received equivalent rewards on the master's return, while the rebellious, slovenly ones received stripes, but nowhere does it say that these servants were eternally punished..then the pieces make sense.........grace has to do with resurrection from the consequences for all who were in Adam when he sinned and being placed in Christ,neither condition which was consented to by the recipients, but reward/loss is the consequence of our PERSONAL actions, but are not eternal for the eternal condition comes from being IN Christ.

We want to take credit for every step, but it is not of us, but of God. God bless

[janelle144]

That is mincing words. Of course, Christ won our salvation by dying for our sins but if we don't live good lives we throw it all back in Christ's face.

[ScarletWren]

But, but, but......I see no but........what Adam did by sinning, for everyone, Christ reversed by His righteousness. We had no choice about inheriting mortality nor do we have any choice about inheriting immortality. And if that could include endless torture...how in anyone's view could Christ's work be considered GOOD NEWS?? That instead of simply being subjected to no consciousness, most of the world's population from the first moment, is going to be in conscious misery? Who would be content with that??? I would not wish THAT on my worst enemy.

We somehow think, like our earthly parents God BORE children....but he CREATED us and when you are a perfect creator you get what you created...how can it go off on it's own way? He intimatey knows EACH and EVERY atom in our bodies and what or why we fail to do righteousness or why we commit each sin. We learn by committing sins and experiencing the consequences and we learn when we are subjected to trials. This is NOT some testing ground for God's experiments.....it is going as He planned for He is sovereign and NOTHING He created can thwart His plans......temporarily He permits, even arranges as in the case of Pharoah and Nebudchadnezzar, for his will to be rebeled against, but His, intention, will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. I KNOW that it is NOT our Father's intention for ANY creature to be lost FOREVER, for an eon, or two or more, yes, but not forever, but He will be ALL in ALL.

This thought that you are saved one day, lost the next.........smiled on by Him one month........under His anger the next year........such human failings are not a part of a all wise God.......He will finish us, the work he began and has a fervent desire to finish to HIS glory, it is HIS workmanship that is at stake, the glory all belongs to HIM alone. Great joy unspeakable awaits us, and ESPECIALLY for those who endure to the end as Paul did....but His rewards for a specified time, does not mean that others will not EVENTUALLY, in the fullness of time, God's time, come to the realization of TRUTH.

I do not know what awaits us in particular, but I trust that our temporary suffering will be forgotten when bathed with the light of His love, mercy, acceptance and welcome. No, He didn't just create a man and HOPE that He would love Him for it, but He created a world to lavish HIS OVERABOUNDING love upon, but does not want spoiled children, who just take and doesn't know what it means to love and be loved, but there is the furnace to pass through on our way to becoming mature and responsible sons, in His image at last, as Christ was.

Some for a moment are vessels of honor and some are vessels or wrath....both are necessary just as an author has to have his hero have something to overcome. But God can break and remold as easily as the writer can revive a villain and change his heart.....even easier.

There will be gnashing of teeth, regrets, but at last even a tyrant's victims will welcome him/her into the fellowship of the Father and be happy. I am confident of that.

That is what true agape love would hope for.

Be blessed.

[Mikelee81]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

That is not true on both scripture references.

1 John 2:19 is not speaking about a person not having faith to begin with, it is speaking about those claiming to be true preachers of the word ... and by their false teaching show themselves they are not coming from those teaching the truth, as Acts 20:30 teaches.


John 6:37-40 .... "whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

Since Jesus also stated:

John 15:6
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Jesus never implies "they never were Christians to begin with". .... you are!

And here's the tension in the text which has divided Christians.

If one does an exigesis of the epistle of 1 John, it is clear that those that "went out from us that were not of us" were not "anointed".

1 John 2:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

The word "unction" is the following

Lexicon :: Strong's G5545 - chrisma

χρῖσμα

Transliteration
chrisma

Greek Lexicon :: G5545 (KJV)

The word is only used by John in the following text..

1 John 2:27King James Version (KJV)

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


According to the text of John, the same person allegedly that wrote the Gospel of John in Chapter 15 regarding "abiding", tells us in his epistle that the reason for those that did not "go out from us" is directly due to their "anointing". Also due to this anointed of God, He abides in them (which is consistent with the book of ephesians and elsewhere) through His Holy Spirit which He gave and due to this, the saints abide in Him.

It is some spiritual food for thought to chew on.

I have come to the conclusion based on the Word of God that if one is born again through faith in Jesus Christ and God's Works through them, they can not be lost. They have a new nature that is now competing with the old nature. Peace and joy comes through obedience and submission to the Will of God in Jesus Christ.

Living in sin for the born again Christian is equated to misery, loneliness, despair.. etc.. There is a desire to repent and do what is right according to God's instruction of what is right and wrong.

[Huckleberry3911948]

salvation is non a non reversable contract like a student loan. if you act godlike you are part of the program, if you dont you are not. this does not happen all at once, just like going from bad to good or good to bad, its gradual. you dont become a drunk in one night.