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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144
Animals do not have souls and any way they act does not make them sin or go against their self respect. When we sin we hurt ourselves and our relation with God. This applies to all sexual sin, adultery, etc, etc.
How do you know animals don't have souls? Or, conversely, how do you know humans do? Is there a scientific proof for either?
I find every word you write to be immoral and sanctimonious according to my religion, but the law says I must respect your right to speak or write as you please. And because I value the same privilege, I protect your right to put your left foot in hell.
So let's see, instead of actually addressing my point about negative effects, you again turn this into something personal against me. Now I am immoral and sanctimonious yet you are the one on the high horse judging here. That's not a good sign of being a loving Christian to me. But here is what I find really frustrating with people on your side. You can never admit to being wrong. I have never once seen an atheist or a liberal back down and say, hey you know, you made a good point or maybe I am wrong in my viewpoint. Myself? If the truth is that I have been completely wrong about homosexuality and it is something God created then I will gladly reverse my position and embrace the lifestyle. I can admit that I am wrong and have many times even if it meant swallowing my pride. NOONE has all the answers.
You continue to charge that I don't act like a Christian, but a true Christian lives by the Word of God. I posted several scriptures which go against your stance and you pretty much ignore them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
On the other hand, you don't even have to think about going somewhere to buy a cake. Nor are you overly concerned about a car driving down the road looking to beat you up for what you are as opposed to who you are. But a homosexual man? You don't think he is faced with that at all. But Rice University did an empirical study of people going into places of employment with hats on their heads. The student subjects had no idea what was written on the hats. On some were written "Proud Texan." On others "Gay Pride." Do I have to even draw the conclusion for you? Which interviews lasted longer? You know the answer because what was practiced on the students wearing the gay pride hats is what you are practicing constantly.
Ok so your answer is to run completely in the other direction, let's ignore what the Bible says and just come up with studies that now say being homosexual is completely normal? How about we first just treat each other as we want to be treated, as equal human beings? Gay or straight, we share the same human traits, the same life struggles of challenges and pain and finding our purpose in life. Gay or straight, if someone needs my help, I offer it. Sexual orientation isn't a factor. There shouldn't be a need to broadcast "hey I'm gay" on a hat, or receive special recognition that you are a gay NFL player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Religious zealotry in the hands of unthinking, uncaring, unempathetic, and sanctimonious people is a dangerous thing. All the most private and what should be the most loving and caring moments in a person's life---conception, marriage, birth control, and even death---religious zealots want control of for every one in this country. Your religious freedom is becoming more and more a danger to our society as a whole. As much as I value it myself, it does appear to be our undoing as a nation. We have the Christian version of the Taliban walking among us. Frankly the zombies of World War Z are not nearly as frightening.
But apparently you have no empathy for people who don't believe exactly like you.
You seem to have missed the meaning of my post and you certainly haven't answered it.
You are stating your opinion and your assertion that I vote on superstition is insulting. I am voting bases on my beliefs. Why can't you respect my differences without being condesending?
You are stating your opinion and your assertion that I vote on superstition is insulting. I am voting bases on my beliefs. Why can't you respect my differences without being condesending?
I am stating that you vote on opinions that are not derived from factual information, but on religious attitudes that many people don't share, therefore you are attempting to place your religious values in charge of what other people do. If religion and the values only associated with religion are not voluntary you are violating the spirit of the faith Jesus taught and the facts of our constitutional safeguards.
He suggested that we should do adhere to popular views. I was asking him would he be willing to do what he was suggesting even though he disagrees with the majority of the voting population.
I am stating that you vote on opinions that are not derived from factual information, but on religious attitudes that many people don't share, therefore you are attempting to place your religious values in charge of what other people do. If religion and the values only associated with religion are not voluntary you are violating the spirit of the faith Jesus taught and the facts of our constitutional safeguards.
What facts do you vote on? How do you know what you vote on is factual or not?
So let's see, instead of actually addressing my point about negative effects, you again turn this into something personal against me. Now I am immoral and sanctimonious yet you are the one on the high horse judging here. That's not a good sign of being a loving Christian to me. But here is what I find really frustrating with people on your side. You can never admit to being wrong. I have never once seen an atheist or a liberal back down and say, hey you know, you made a good point or maybe I am wrong in my viewpoint. Myself? If the truth is that I have been completely wrong about homosexuality and it is something God created then I will gladly reverse my position and embrace the lifestyle. I can admit that I am wrong and have many times even if it meant swallowing my pride. NOONE has all the answers.
You continue to charge that I don't act like a Christian, but a true Christian lives by the Word of God. I posted several scriptures which go against your stance and you pretty much ignore them.
Ok so your answer is to run completely in the other direction, let's ignore what the Bible says and just come up with studies that now say being homosexual is completely normal? How about we first just treat each other as we want to be treated, as equal human beings? Gay or straight, we share the same human traits, the same life struggles of challenges and pain and finding our purpose in life. Gay or straight, if someone needs my help, I offer it. Sexual orientation isn't a factor. There shouldn't be a need to broadcast "hey I'm gay" on a hat, or receive special recognition that you are a gay NFL player.
But apparently you have no empathy for people who don't believe exactly like you.
You are wrong on several accounts.
First, Ceist correctly points out the false, deceptive attempts of the right to discredit studies by the APA. I didn't see your apology in the above post for being duped. No, fundamentalist christians consistently love to believe fabricated stories told by right wing politicians. And consistently spout off things like--"I don't see gays being discriminated against anywhere. Where are the "gay only" water fountains." You know, those kinds of attempts at self justification. Nor when faced with evidence of dozens of cases of discrimination against GLBT will they acknowledge that perhaps their own moralization of the Bible gives rise to that discrimination.
Second, a true Christian observes and studies the Word of God, but He attempts to live and deal with others in the manner Jesus did. That's my religion. Yours is completely of a book, written by ordinary men with ordinary prejudices that have been perpetuated through the years. There are many writings of Paul that simply are not consistent with the word of Jesus. But in your mind you conflate scripture and create stories in your own head to deal with the inconsistencies. Read what Jesus said about loving your enemies--truly loving them, wishing for good to come upon them--and then read what Paul wrote about praying for your enemies---in order to heap burning coals on their heads. Suddenly the scripture is no longer plain as in "kill homosexuals," it needs to be "explained" that that was not really what Paul was saying--blah, blah, blah. Jesus told the Pharisees that they read the scripture and thought salvation was in them. But those scriptures spoke of HIM whom they rejected. Afraid you are reflecting the values of the Pharisees--good biblical people--knew their Bible ever so well--but focused on the words rather than on the one to whom they pointed.
The point being people is that Jesus said He didn't intend to "change" the Law, but in His teaching and His example, that's exactly what He did. He tried to put new meaning to the Law to show that people are more important than written words. One human being is worth more than every bible that exists or ever existed on the planet. What shepherd, finding one of his flock missing, will not leave the 99 to find the one which is lost?
Your assumption about my lack of empathy is incorrect. I feel pity for the hardness of your hearts. My sister and her husband are both fundamentalists. I hear the "gays are overrunning the world" talk whenever I visit--and I have to consistently and insistently point out that they are not to worry about gays or any other sinners, they are to live like Jesus and treat everyone as He did, not moralize about the Bible.
When I pointed out the fact that two state legislatures have passed laws forbidding pastors to marry same-sex individuals in their own church, my sister at least responded with, "That is troubling." My brother-in-law reflects more along the lines of your posts---"Great! Wish all the other states would do the same!"
On judgment day there will be a lot of so-called Christians saying, "But Lord, we read your Word, and you hate gays!!" And Jesus will be replying, "Did you not read that God desires mercy? Which did you think was more important? Depart from me ye workers of iniquity."
The judgment of God is falling on the nation, I agree. And it is starting at the house of God.
By the way, why wouldn't homosexuality be considered normal? It is heterosexual people giving birth to them. And homosexuality occurs more frequently than triplets. Should triplets be discriminated against because "it is not normal?"
Discrimination gave rise to "black pride," an expression of people so downtrodden that they had to lift themselves up and band tightly together. The same thing happened to gay people. I forget where it was--the East Coast in 1969--but someone called the police about a gay bar and the police arrived. They simply wanted to be left alone--in their own establishment--to do as they pleased. That night gay and lesbians stood together and fought for the first time. Police had to call in a ton of reinforcements and, of course, police power finally won out. But that was the beginning of "gay pride." It was created by discrimination and hate and will probably live long after that discrimination is dead and gone.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 10-23-2014 at 11:23 AM..
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