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Old 11-13-2014, 09:51 AM
 
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One doesn't need a Ph.D. in theology to look around the world and realize something is desperately wrong. The existence of evil is one of the most vexing challenges a Christian--or any person, for that matter-- must grapple with. It's occupied the minds of great Christian thinkers since the beginning, including St. Augustine (354-430). For much of his life he worked hard at a solution.

Augustine's approach was not just brilliant; it was practical. His insight is intellectually credible and emotionally satisfying in that it gives hope and offers meaning to the Christian trying to make sense out of life in a fallen world.
Stand to Reason | Augustine on Evil

Who causes evil?


Where does evil come from?


Can God cause evil?

Why would God cause evil?

What is the essence of evil?

Is evil useful for Christians?

Is evil avoidable?
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Old 11-13-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Florida -
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An extract from the referenced article also provided Augustine's assessment of evil (as being a consequence of 'free will', rather than a creation of God. That makes sense to me and seems consistent with scripture:

Evil, then, is the act itself of choosing the lesser good. To Augustine the source of evil is in the free will of persons: "And I strained to perceive what I now heard, that free-will was the cause of our doing ill." Evil was a "perversion of the will, turned aside from...God" to lesser things.

IMO, the article also provides a good assessment of God's purpose for allowing evil:

"There's a sound reason why God has allowed evil. It doesn't conflict with His goodness. God is neither the author of evil, nor its helpless victim. Rather, precisely because of His goodness He chooses to co-exist with evil for a time."
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Old 11-13-2014, 10:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
An extract from the referenced article also provided Augustine's assessment of evil (as being a consequence of 'free will', rather than a creation of God. That makes sense to me and seems consistent with scripture:

Evil, then, is the act itself of choosing the lesser good. To Augustine the source of evil is in the free will of persons: "And I strained to perceive what I now heard, that free-will was the cause of our doing ill." Evil was a "perversion of the will, turned aside from...God" to lesser things.

IMO, the article also provides a good assessment of God's purpose for allowing evil:

"There's a sound reason why God has allowed evil. It doesn't conflict with His goodness. God is neither the author of evil, nor its helpless victim. Rather, precisely because of His goodness He chooses to co-exist with evil for a time."
I see evil as a non-entity. For me evil is the absence of good.


One could say GOD is heat which has energy whereas evil is absence of heat which is cold. But cold has no energy therefore cold is nothing.

Quote:
If Augustine's approach is fair, it prompts a pair of syllogisms that lead to a different conclusion. First: 1) All things that God created are good; 2) evil is not good; 3) therefore, evil was not created by God. Second: 1) God created every thing; 2) God did not create evil; 3) therefore, evil is not a thing.
I am amazed by Augustine who in the 4th century had a better grasp on Christianity than 21st century men.
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Old 11-13-2014, 11:10 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
An extract from the referenced article also provided Augustine's assessment of evil (as being a consequence of 'free will', rather than a creation of God. That makes sense to me and seems consistent with scripture:

Evil, then, is the act itself of choosing the lesser good. To Augustine the source of evil is in the free will of persons: "And I strained to perceive what I now heard, that free-will was the cause of our doing ill." Evil was a "perversion of the will, turned aside from...God" to lesser things.

IMO, the article also provides a good assessment of God's purpose for allowing evil:

"There's a sound reason why God has allowed evil. It doesn't conflict with His goodness. God is neither the author of evil, nor its helpless victim. Rather, precisely because of His goodness He chooses to co-exist with evil for a time."
You and Julian658 have brought up some very interesting discussions. Martin Luther quoted Augustine very much in his writings and concluded that free-will is in itself evil, but even though Luther respected Augustine greatly, I believe that Augustine saw free will as being a possible virtue, in that it inspires resisting evil by courage to oppose evil.

At any rate, I believe that God does not want robots who always love Him but have no choice to do otherwise, but as those who freely love Him even though they are often tempted by evil to do wrong. True goodness is able to resist evil, if led by the Spirit of God. Without the Holy Spirit to lead, guide and direct us, we are hopelessy unable to resist the temptations of Satan and follow the spirit of ALL of sayings of Christ which He requires of us.
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:21 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Evil, which originated with, and is sponsored by Satan and is manifested throughout human history is all that in thought or action stands in complete opposition to, and independence of God and His plan. It is all that is antigod in character. Evil results both from angelic and human volition in disobedience to God.

Whenever the subject of evil comes up I like to quote Lewis Sperry Chafer who wrote the following concerning Satan's plan.
Next to the lie itself, the greatest delusion Satan imposes---reaching to all unsaved and to a large proportion of Christians---is the supposition that only such things as society considers evil could originate with the devil---it, indeed, there be any devil to originate anything. It is not the reason of man, but the revelation of God, which points out that governments, morals, education, art, commercialism, vast enterprises and organizations, and much of religious activity are included in the cosmos diabolicus. That is, the system which Satan has constructed includes all the good which he can incorporate into it and be consistent in the thing he aims to accomplish. A serious question arises whether the presence of gross evil in the world is due to Satan's intention to have it so, or whether it indicates Satan's inability to execute all he has designed. The probability is great that Satan's ambition has led him to undertake more than any creature could ever administered. Revelation declares that the whole cosmos-system must be annihilated---not its evil alone, but all that is in it, both good and bad. God will incorporate nothing of Satan's failure into that kingdom which He will set up in the earth. The cosmos diabolicus must be ''broken in pieces'' and become like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors which the wind carries away, and all this before the smiting stone---Christ in His return to earth---will set up a kingdom which shall fill the whole earth (Dan. 2:34-35, 44-45). [Chafer, Systematic Theology, Vol. 2, pp. 100-101.]
Satan's plan then includes not only evil, but human good as opposed to divine good. Any good the believer produces from his own relative righteousness is not acceptable to God (Isaiah 64:6). Only good which is produced under the filling of the Holy Spirit is acceptable. All human good-works of wood, hay, and straw will be burned up. All divine good-works of gold, silver, and precious stones will be rewarded (1 Corinthians 3:12-15).

God is not responsible for evil, but as a part of the spiritual warfare which rages throughout human history, God permits evil and allows it to run its full course so that Satan's lie may be fully exposed and judged.

Isaiah 45:7 which speaks of God creating 'evil', does not refer to moral evil, but to calamity, disaster, or adversity in judgment of sin (Amos 3:2,6).
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:59 PM
 
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The wicked do what is evil because they fail to serve the Lord and do what is right.
Evil to God is not being mean or like that. It is simply failing to serve God.

The Lord says this;

"You have defied me in word," Says the Lord, "Yet you say, 'What have we spoken against You?'
You have said, "It is vain to serve God, and what do we profit by keeping his command, And going about in penitential dress in awe of the LORD of hosts?
Rather must we call the proud blessed; for indeed evildoers prosper, and even tempt God with impunity."
Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another, And the Lord listened attentively; So a book of remembrance was written before Him of those who fear the Lord and trust in His name.
"They shall be Mine," says the Lord of hosts, "On the day that I take action. And I will have compassion on them As a man has compassion on his son who serves him."
Then you shall again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, Between one who serves God And one who does not serve Him.
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Old 11-13-2014, 01:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
The wicked do what is evil because they fail to serve the Lord and do what is right.
Evil to God is not being mean or like that. It is simply failing to serve God.
So Satan is not needed.
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Old 11-13-2014, 01:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Evil, which originated with, and is sponsored by Satan

How does Satan sponsors evil?

Is that a figure of speech?
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Old 11-13-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
How does Satan sponsors evil?

Is that a figure of speech?
Perhaps not the best word to use. I simply meant that Satan ultimately is responsible for the existence of evil in the universe.
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Old 11-13-2014, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Florida -
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Perhaps not the best word to use. I simply meant that Satan ultimately is responsible for the existence of evil in the universe.
And further, I think that God created Satan and allows his continued existence on earth ... to provide an alternative for those who use their 'free will' to rebel against God and reject God's truth and Lordship in their lives.

This is perhaps similar to God allowing Israel to reject God as their sovereign King and Lord ... and instead choose Saul, who was "a king like other nations had."
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