Would You Consider non-Trinitarian Christians to be actual Christians (Israel, baptism, Catholic)
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It is a good thing that what you consider Christian has nothing to do with who is or is not Christian. Only God is able to make that judgment.
I totally understand what you mean and basically agree that people have no business telling someone who self-identifies as a Christian that they are not. But I am highly doubtful that God gives a hoot what label anyone claims for themselves and isn't in the business of putting people into categories. That's a human enterprise.
I totally understand what you mean and basically agree that people have no business telling someone who self-identifies as a Christian that they are not. But I am highly doubtful that God gives a hoot what label anyone claims for themselves and isn't in the business of putting people into categories. That's a human enterprise.
Well said, Pleroo. Your understanding of agape love is excellent. But what I am referring to is not the label . . . but the reality. Only God knows who actually follows Christ in agape love for us all . . whatever they label themselves.
The word translated as truth does NOT have those religious meanings and interpretations. It is alētheia and it has objective and subjective uses. In the verse cited it clearly is subjective since it characterizes HOW we should worship God.
Objectively:
what is true in any matter under consideration
truly, in truth, according to truth
of a truth, in reality, in fact, certainly
Subjectively:
truth as a personal excellence
that candour of mind which is free from affection, pretence, simulation, falsehood, deceit
Please note if Jesus meant "sincerity" he would have used the Greek word.
.KJV 1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
NIV 1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
Sincerity is: 1823 heilikrineia . sincerity
To be sincere.
Truth is:231 alētheia truth, truthfulness; reality; evp/ avÅ or evn avÅ often truly, to be sure; avlhqei,a| with right motives (Php 1.18) h
The word translated as truth does NOT have those religious meanings and interpretations. It is alētheia and it has objective and subjective uses. In the verse cited it clearly is subjective since it characterizes HOW we should worship God.
Objectively:
what is true in any matter under consideration
truly, in truth, according to truth
of a truth, in reality, in fact, certainly
Subjectively:
truth as a personal excellence
that candour of mind which is free from affection, pretence, simulation, falsehood, deceit
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Please note if Jesus meant "sincerity" he would have used the Greek word.
<snip>
Jesus knew the difference.
Jesus would not have spoken Greek. Jesus knew the difference but clearly you do NOT. HOW we worship is an entirely subjective act and the subjective use of the word is controlling.
Jesus would not have spoken Greek. Jesus knew the difference but clearly you do NOT. HOW we worship is an entirely subjective act and the subjective use of the word is controlling.
Jesus would be able to speak all languages.
However the objective and subjective are modern uses, not Hebrew or Greek in context.
In Hebrew there is one word for truth (Hebrew emim) and one for sincerely (Hebrew tamiym).
The word used in Greek defines actual truth, not truth in the mind of a person.Greek has a couple of words for sincerely, so again using "truth" in Greek excludes sincerely as the meaning and does cover truth in sincerity.
Jesus did not say God was looking for people to worship Him in subjective truth.
We worship in truth sincerely. Can we be wrong about what we believe is true, yes. However when we have to views that are 180 degrees apart and contradict each other only one is true. Objectively true.
Now beliefs about a teaching such as circumcision can change, a belief about gentiles being able to be followers of Christ had to change. God however, does not change.
It is a good thing that what you consider Christian has nothing to do with who is or is not Christian. Only God is able to make that judgment.
Sigh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 16:19
And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
The Church founded by Christ Himself has declared Mormons, Jehovah's and such non-Christians, same as Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism.
I was baptised Presbyterian, and did not need to be baptized again when embracing the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church, but a Mormon friend did as his baptism was invalid.
God acts through the Church he himself founded silly.
However the objective and subjective are modern uses, not Hebrew or Greek in context.
In Hebrew there is one word for truth (Hebrew emim) and one for sincerely (Hebrew tamiym).
The word used in Greek defines actual truth, not truth in the mind of a person.Greek has a couple of words for sincerely, so again using "truth" in Greek excludes sincerely as the meaning and does cover truth in sincerity.
Jesus did not say God was looking for people to worship Him in subjective truth.
We worship in truth sincerely. Can we be wrong about what we believe is true, yes. However when we have to views that are 180 degrees apart and contradict each other only one is true. Objectively true.
Now beliefs about a teaching such as circumcision can change, a belief about gentiles being able to be followers of Christ had to change. God however, does not change.
It is actually,אמת, Emit... Truth...,בכנות,tamiym, Innocent...,כֵּנוּת,Kaynut, Sincerity ...
Last edited by Richard1965; 06-21-2015 at 08:11 PM..
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