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Open Mike, the issue at hand is not the laws and traditions that the Rabbis' added after the Babylonian captivity as a fence around the law in an effort to prevent the Mosaic Law from being violated. The issue is the Mosaic Law itself which was given by God to Israel. Both Romans and Galatians address the subject of the Mosaic Law and make it clear that the church is not bound to it. I will list some of the verses and you can read them in their context for yourself.
Paul states in Romans 6:14-15 that we are not under law but under grace.
Rom. 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15] What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
Rom. 7:6But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter
The Mosaic Law was given only to Israel, and only after they left Egypt. It was given to govern the life of Israel as a theocracy.
Gal. 3:17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18] For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 19] Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
The purpose of the Mosaic Law was to act as a tutor or guardian until Christ came. The Mosaic law was temporary; it functioned until it accomplished its purpose.
Gal. 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24]Therefore the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.26] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Rather than being under the Mosaic Law, the church age believer lives under the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death (The Mosaic Law). 3] For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4] so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Polytheism is the belief in either more than one God or a bunch of fancy gods .Christians believe in ONE God who just happens to manifest himself in three ways Why? It's a neat way to manifest Jesus and His unique role and Gods spirit ( all good and an easy transition for God). So unbelievers ALWAYS confused about God stuff cannot "get" nor believe God who created the cottonpickin universe can't manifest Himself three ways. God is a loser a liar and nuts and incapable of supernatural transformation then? Or are humans simply a quart low incapable of mystery solving at a level that is relegated to ONLY believers. Getting back to topic whew! Pope Sylvester screwed up royally by changing Sabbath and I suggest it cursed the church for generations Why? The church has the word and ignored the error ? In fairness church sabbath evolved with a ear tickling alternative Jesus resurrection on Sunday ,which IS considerate but NOT scriptural just THOUGHT as usual. It isn't damniable ( although don't hire me to judge) I would not want to face God with a tale about changing HIS hysterically important Sabbath!!
Polytheism is the belief in either more than one God or a bunch of fancy gods .Christians believe in ONE God who just happens to manifest himself in three ways Why?
Not all Christians...
Quote:
It's a neat way to manifest Jesus and His unique role and Gods spirit ( all good and an easy transition for God). So unbelievers ALWAYS confused about God stuff cannot "get" nor believe God who created the cottonpickin universe can't manifest Himself three ways. God is a loser a liar and nuts and incapable of supernatural transformation then? Or are humans simply a quart low incapable of mystery solving at a level that is relegated to ONLY believers.
Oh, I totally understand and can argue for the Trinity...My question is, is it valid?...
Better to argue for the Godhead but since Trinity is a great alternative to the biblically mentioned Godhead It's all good as it conveys the same . I'm just picky about manufactured words. I also don't like versions that replace Godhead with "diety" although it takes you to God it doesn't convey Godhead (Triune).
Ref: KJV,/NIV. For in Him ( Yesuha/ Jesus) dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead bodily"
Better to argue for the Godhead but since Trinity is a great alternative to the biblically mentioned Godhead It's all good as it conveys the same . I'm just picky about manufactured words. I also don't like versions that replace Godhead with "diety" although it takes you to God it doesn't convey Godhead (Triune).
All right, show me where it uses Godhead in the Scriptures...Not the Letters but the Scriptures...
Better to argue for the Godhead but since Trinity is a great alternative to the biblically mentioned Godhead It's all good as it conveys the same . I'm just picky about manufactured words. I also don't like versions that replace Godhead with "diety" although it takes you to God it doesn't convey Godhead (Triune).
Ref: KJV,/NIV. For in Him ( Yesuha/ Jesus) dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead bodily"
Wow!
YLT
Col 2:9 because in him doth tabernacle all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,
G2320
θεότης
theotēs
theh-ot'-ace
From G2316; divinity (abstractly): - godhead.
Total KJV occurrences: 1
Firstly, what must be historically understood is Constantine ( Emperor of Rome 325a.d.) was a pagan
who for many reasons not totally confirmed had a reported epiphany, influenced by his wife who favored Christians yet a mother bent on the continued worship of the sun god precipitating a mandate to enforce Sun Day ( sun god worship)! For political reasons Constantine still opened doors for christians he began working with the council of Nicea and Pope Sylvester. Here is the key to the collaboration. Constantine and the detouring Catholicism from mainline were successful in eliminating anything of hebrew origin not withstanding the Lord's feast days and there practices as just one example. To further divorce themselves from Jews Sylvester tossed out the traditional Sabbath to Sunday ( representative of the death and resurrection of Jesus) from Saturday. ( not appropriate to anyone knowing how much Jesus emphasized the established Sabbath!!! This well intended change surfaces as still another in a long exhausting list of blasphemies by the church. Learn the feasts as they are a real Christians KEYS to understanding God and HIS timelines HIS plan often never taught! Why? The feasts were DUMPED and recovering in pockets ( pastors having Holy Spirit discerment). Warning respect the Papacy ,but watch your back!!! Suggestion
REST ON SATURDAY ( or another day if you must work ) Honor. Sabbath!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by openmike
Polytheism is the belief in either more than one God or a bunch of fancy gods .Christians believe in ONE God who just happens to manifest himself in three ways Why? It's a neat way to manifest Jesus and His unique role and Gods spirit ( all good and an easy transition for God). So unbelievers ALWAYS confused about God stuff cannot "get" nor believe God who created the cottonpickin universe can't manifest Himself three ways. God is a loser a liar and nuts and incapable of supernatural transformation then? Or are humans simply a quart low incapable of mystery solving at a level that is relegated to ONLY believers. Getting back to topic whew! Pope Sylvester screwed up royally by changing Sabbath and I suggest it cursed the church for generations Why? The church has the word and ignored the error ? In fairness church sabbath evolved with a ear tickling alternative Jesus resurrection on Sunday ,which IS considerate but NOT scriptural just THOUGHT as usual. It isn't damniable ( although don't hire me to judge) I would not want to face God with a tale about changing HIS hysterically important Sabbath!!
Openmike, if you won't believe me (posts #2, 4, 9), perhaps you will believe Justin Martyr (A.D. 100-165). In 'THE FIRST APOLOGY OF JUSTIN,' written c. A.D 150-160, which is well before the time of Constantine, in chapter LXVII he states that the church worships on Sunday, and tells why.
JUSTIN MARTYR -- THE FIRST APOLOGY OF JUSTIN
And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.
We can go back even further. The Epistle of Barnabas which is dated to c. A.D. 80-120 addresses the day of worship.
Epistle of Barnabas
Barnabas 15:8
Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot
away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present
Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have
made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make
the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another
world.
Barnabas 15:9 Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which
also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended
into the heavens. [Bolding mine]
Long before the time of Constantine and Pope Sylvester, the church was worshiping on Sunday. That fact is stated by Justin Martyr and the Epistle of Barnabas.
The Sabbath has not been changed. As has been shown from Scripture in post #9, the church is not bound by the Mosaic Law, which includes observance of the Saturday Sabbath. This cannot be made any clearer. I've provided the data and the Scripture. What you choose to do with that information is up to you.
Openmike, if you won't believe me (posts #2, 4, 9), perhaps you will believe Justin Martyr (A.D. 100-165). In 'THE FIRST APOLOGY OF JUSTIN,' written c. A.D 150-160, which is well before the time of Constantine, in chapter LXVII he states that the church worships on Sunday, and tells why.
JUSTIN MARTYR -- THE FIRST APOLOGY OF JUSTIN
And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.
We can go back even further. The Epistle of Barnabas which is dated to c. A.D. 80-120 addresses the day of worship.
Epistle of Barnabas
Barnabas 15:8
Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot
away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present
Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have
made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make
the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another
world.
Barnabas 15:9 Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended into the heavens. [Bolding mine]
Long before the time of Constantine and Pope Sylvester, the church was worshiping on Sunday. That fact is stated by Justin Martyr and the Epistle of Barnabas.
The Sabbath has not been changed. As has been shown from Scripture in post #9, the church is not bound by the Mosaic Law, which includes observance of the Saturday Sabbath. This cannot be made any clearer. I've provided the data and the Scripture. What you choose to do with that information is up to you.
...Such deception...Even I can understand what Barnabas is talking about...You are desperate...You are using writings that I know you consider Gnostic and therefore heretical...Tsk, tsk...
Last edited by Richard1965; 09-20-2015 at 08:07 PM..
...Such deception...Even I can understand what Barnabas is talking about...You are desperate...You are using writings that I know you consider Gnostic and therefore heretical...Tsk, tsk...
¸.•*¨*•♫♪ Here we go round the condemnation merry-go-round... ¸.•*¨*•♫♪ round and round we go ...
Do you think anyone will ever be touched inside or changed by anything you say? Do you care?
Firstly, what must be historically understood is Constantine ( Emperor of Rome 325a.d.) was a pagan
who for many reasons not totally confirmed had a reported epiphany, influenced by his wife who favored Christians yet a mother bent on the continued worship of the sun god precipitating a mandate to enforce Sun Day ( sun god worship)! For political reasons Constantine still opened doors for christians he began working with the council of Nicea and Pope Sylvester. Here is the key to the collaboration. Constantine and the detouring Catholicism from mainline were successful in eliminating anything of hebrew origin not withstanding the Lord's feast days and there practices as just one example. To further divorce themselves from Jews Sylvester tossed out the traditional Sabbath to Sunday ( representative of the death and resurrection of Jesus) from Saturday. ( not appropriate to anyone knowing how much Jesus emphasized the established Sabbath!!! This well intended change surfaces as still another in a long exhausting list of blasphemies by the church. Learn the feasts as they are a real Christians KEYS to understanding God and HIS timelines HIS plan often never taught! Why? The feasts were DUMPED and recovering in pockets ( pastors having Holy Spirit discerment). Warning respect the Papacy ,but watch your back!!! Suggestion
REST ON SATURDAY ( or another day if you must work ) Honor. Sabbath!!!!
Dear OM,
Constantine had his wife and son killed. I don't think her influence could have been that high. On the other hand, Constantine was a momma's boy, and his mother's love of the "Christian" church influenced his political moves.
As for the fairy tale version of the vision at Milvian bridge was probably the work of the church/state historian Eusebius. The other story given was that the vision was from Sol Invictus, the sun god, whose day is the "day of the sun". That story is best established by the Roman coin struck the next year 313, in which Constantine portrait was next to that of Sol Invictus.
Constantine's decree of 321 AD established the day of rest as that of the "day of the sun". See following reference: No buying or selling could take place because markets would be closed.
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Constantine'slaw of…321 [C.E] uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the"venerable day of the sun" It is to be noted that this official solarworship, the final form of paganism in the empire…, was not the traditionalRoman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities.It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified inAurelian's establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the officialreligion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statuesof Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into theofficial imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It wasthis late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun andabsorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universaldeity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion thatwent down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with itsown elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)
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On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the officialday of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity
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...Such deception...Even I can understand what Barnabas is talking about...You are desperate...You are using writings that I know you consider Gnostic and therefore heretical...Tsk, tsk...
