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Others believe that their path is certain. You don't have to pass judgment.
You should understand and communicate that Jesus is the only way to the Father as He said.
You have been studying worldly opinions, and it shows. I'm glad you admit that you have moved, because it shows as well.
Mystic does not believe in the physical resurrection of Christ and discounts Scriptures he does not like.
The cross is representative of God's love for everyone... and representative that he has forgiven everyone. However, God's forgiveness and love does not, by itself, make a person sufficient to be saved - because we remain unchanged - dead to God. God forgives all and loves all - and He has provided all the opportunity to be born again through receiving the Holy Spirit through believing the gospel.
In other words, you can hear that you have won the lottery - but if you don't do what the lottery officials tell you to do to receive your winnings, you will remain unchanged.
If you believe what you heard, you will go to the place to validate your ticket and make arrangements for how you receive your money - and it's THEN that your life changes.
God's forgiveness and love has been announced to the world through His death and resurrection. Your instructions to receive the benefits are to believe the gospel. God then completes the transaction by sending us the Holy Spirit as a seal to our inheritance. But until anyone follows His instructions and believes the gospel - one's life remains unchanged.
Very interesting. The best way to describe salvation is using a lottery example????
And therein lies the difficulty for fundamentalists. Salvation is about "getting your ticket punched to go to heaven." But for those who are Christ followers it is about being a servant to mankind as Jesus was. Heaven (or Hell) is God's business. Nowhere does Jesus make it OUR business except when stating we store up treasure in heaven:
Quote:
"But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Matt 6:20
And how do we do that? By talking a walk or walking our talk? IF the treasure your storing up is in heaven, then others will see it and be drawn to it---but that is no longer occurring in Christianity. Why? Because even the most conservative churches have done nothing but shape doctrines to control men in the fashion such denominations wish, and by concentrating on the sin of others rather than seeking to clean up the House of God which is where the filthiest sin in the world now resides---pride.
I'm not trying to "validate" any "ticket" to heaven. It makes no difference what God decides for me. His commandment TO me is that I live for Him by serving those around me. That act of obedience is the only one God is really interested in. Whether Christ was born of a virgin or whether you believe that believing is everything are of no importance to Christ. He was willing to reject His own family in favor of His disciples.
Quote:
And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers! "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."
Matt 12:49-50
Now how do you think that made His family feel? Was His mother not a "believer?" Then why would He not include her with those who do the will of Jesus' Father?
The cost of discipleship is more than being a "bible-believer." It is about obedience--and Jesus never took Paul's short cuts when it came to being His follower. If you love money--give it up. If you love family and want to bury your father---give it up.
Quote:
Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also
Luke 12:32-34
But fear is the thing that drives fundamentalism. Fear of change, fear of others, fear of losing what one possesses. Instead, fundamentalism consists of hunkering down in its own fears and clinging to the bible as the Hebrews once did the Golden Calf, worried that somehow someone else's lack of belief will impact their community.
I'm not afraid to live without community--although I do on occasion meet with a Methodist start-up church---and only because the pastor (a former Catholic) has moved beyond fundamentalism and toward collaboration with his congregation. Uh, YES, he actually encourages people to speak their own minds--without criticism. You try that in your church and utter something that is out of the orthodox view as your church understands orthodox. Someone will be saying, "That DRob4JC, bless his heart, needs to get back to the Word." Translation--that SOB is going straight to hell. I know. I was there when I began thinking for myself.
It takes courage to think for yourself. Mystic does that. Several others as well. The reason the path is narrow is because denominations are herding everyone down a wide path to their own self-made hell while the thinkers strike out alone, many times friendless, and with no community to fall back on. That takes courage of conviction. Swallowing the lines that come from most pulpits today takes no courage at all. It just takes putting blinders over one's eyes.
Translations of Scripture are always poor--even the BEST is pretty woeful. And reaching "doctrinal" positions requires NOT thinking for yourself. The early church had no doctrines at all. One of the most popular gospels was the Gospel of Peter. Bishop Serapion of Antioch ordered the book banned around the turn of the third century. However our earliest surviving fragments of the Gospel of Peter are older than those of the Gospel of Mark. And Serapion failed anyway. The first fragment of the Gospel of Peter was found in the tomb of an eighth century monk--proving that early christians kept and hid what they founded their faith upon from the orthodox church of Rome.
We now have, what the early orthodox church saw fit to give us. But that is no guaranty that we have a complete picture of the early community's faith. That faith has died through centuries of being oppressed. Now, in these latter days, comes fundamentalism with still another view of what it declares is orthodox and which was never declared centuries earlier. That very fundamentalist view has shaped how more current translations have been "doctored" to fit current evangelical christian views. The word "homosexual" never appeared in any bible prior to 1946. It is not an accurate translation period. But false christianity has influenced modern translations.
Yes I believe in the wisdom of men because I read and understand the Bible. That's all God did was work through flawed and often sinful men. He didn't depend on Scripture. In fact, He ordered Jeremiah to throw the second scroll that He wrote into the ocean. If Jeremiah obeyed, then he must have written a third one because we have it now. And our English Bible version of Jeremiah is 1/7 longer than the oldest manuscript because the original Hebrew scroll depended upon by the first English translators is much newer than the much older version (different organization of "chapters" as well) uncovered in Qumran. So we read Jeremiah blissfully believing that what we read is "close" to the original when it is anything but.
Flawed men wrote the Bible and bear witness to Jesus and God. Flawed men stand in the pulpits today and proclaim their view of Scripture--and you believe them? Why not believe your own study? You are no more flawed than the biblical writers nor today's preachers. Yet you blissfully swallow what they tell you. And you hide behind "I'm depending on the bible, not the wisdom of men." Except that is a lie to yourself--a big lie. You are believing the wisdom of men who have vested interests in getting you to envision Jesus as they wish you to see Him.
Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman rightfully dividing the word of truth. Listening to what preachers say is not studying. And weighing alternate evidence is not unfaithfulness--it is seeking the truth for yourself. Try it sometime. It takes far more faith than you display by swallowing the spouting of current day preachers. If you know you will be rejected by the current community of "faith," and if you are willing to trust God to lead you to the truth--you won't care where that truth comes from, Bible or man, because both are quite flawed. But the Spirit is available to Christ followers so that they can view both through the lens of Jesus Christ.
Very interesting. The best way to describe salvation is using a lottery example????
And therein lies the difficulty for fundamentalists. Salvation is about "getting your ticket punched to go to heaven." But for those who are Christ followers it is about being a servant to mankind as Jesus was. Heaven (or Hell) is God's business. Nowhere does Jesus make it OUR business except when stating we store up treasure in heaven:
Don't get all hung up on the lottery... you get the point of what I am saying.
You can use the example of an inheritance that is passed down to you.
The point is you are getting something for doing nothing, but you have to believe that's it's true and follow through with the terms to have the change applied to your life.
The root of salvation is NOT about being a servant. It's about being born into the family of God - just like one is physically born into an earthly family. I did nothing to be part of the "Rob" family... I was born into it.
The servant part comes later once you grow in the faith.
Now how do you think that made His family feel? Was His mother not a "believer?" Then why would He not include her with those who do the will of Jesus' Father?
The cost of discipleship is more than being a "bible-believer." It is about obedience--and Jesus never took Paul's short cuts when it came to being His follower. If you love money--give it up. If you love family and want to bury your father---give it up.
For the Jews in the OT (which technically is the period in which Jesus lived), this is valid. They were already God's people through Israel. For them, obedience through the law was the issue.
For us, obedience involves different terms. The terms changed after Christ's death and resurrection, and salvation was opened up to all nations. The Holy Spirit's role changed after Christ ascended to heaven.
Now, it's about faith in the gospel of Christ and being baptized into the Father, Son, and Spirit.
But fear is the thing that drives fundamentalism. Fear of change, fear of others, fear of losing what one possesses. Instead, fundamentalism consists of hunkering down in its own fears and clinging to the bible as the Hebrews once did the Golden Calf, worried that somehow someone else's lack of belief will impact their community.
Assuming you are addressing me with this - I fear the Lord. You keep repeating this - but it is false.
Since you seem to know - what change am I afraid of? Who am I afraid of? What am I afraid of losing?
Please enlighten me since it is clear to you that I am totally unaware of how I carry myself.
Ultimately" "by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"
but then I'm not the one boasting about being sooooooo familiar of teachings then to only be asking why from a scoffer's position you're taking.
Ok, so God is 100% responsible? Is that what you are saying?
I make no boasts. I'm no professional theologian.
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