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Are we still going to insist it was friendship when it was clearly a romantic relationship between these men?
1 Samuel 18:1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
1 Samuel 18:2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house.
1 Samuel 18:4And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.
1 Samuel 20:41And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.
Etc and etc.
"And then David and Jonathan had sex with one another and David confessed that he no longer loved woman but wanted to be with men. Then later a confused David decided to go back to heterosexuality and have a man murdered so he could have sex with his wife. This things came to pass. I am the Lord and I declare that homosexuality is good and moral."
Hey, what verse again is this passage? I can't seem to find it. Oh wait, maybe because it does't exist! There are cultures even today where men kiss each other in a non-sexual way, you know.
There remains equally confusing messages in the NT based on the cultural influence of Rome on both Jews and Christians. Monogamy was a Roman law imposed on both religions and eventually adopted by both. Of course, Roman law suffered even married men to visit Temple prostitutes to honor their God. Jeff and company want to impose their LAW on all Americans so their Temple worshipers don't have to bake cakes for gays and thereby offend their tender sensibilities. The Romans used their law to impose their own cultural views of marriage. Jeff would have American law impose his cultural views on the majority of people who aren't interested in his cult.
He needs to get an education, but loves his ignorance and lifestyle too much to risk learning.
The only thing we want is to protect our religious freedoms. If you want to encourage people to sin and possibly go to hell then that's your prerogative. It's a twisted prerogative, if you ask me.
Amen Jeff, there's nothing there except an intimate friendship with brotherly love. Yes hard to imagine nowadays, and I can see how you would have trouble wrapping your mind around pure friendly love. But if you would have read the entire story and not just took out a couple of verses to support your supposed theory, you'd see how ridiculous it is to suggest this would be a romantic relationship.
Why? They are both acts of intimacy between two people that are 'turned on sexually' by one another. How are the results of the same experience - pleasure - any different?
Because you are thumbing your nose at God and telling him that his design isn't good enough. It's a perversion of God's design. Hey what's wrong with a father having sex with his daughter (and let's assume the daughter is a grown woman so you won't try the consent escape route here). It's an act of intimacy between two people who love each other. Perfectly fine, right?
If you have to use man made products to have sexual intimacy then that's not natural.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
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It's you that doesn't even want to try to understand the diverse sexual makeup of the human individual. Why would a homosexual force themselves to be attracted to someone that they are NOT sexually attracted to? You and I are clearly not on the same page here, Jeff. And, that's okay to have differing and personal takes on this and other issues. The big difference is, however, that I don't make it my mission in life to condemn heterosexuality.
Why would a pedophile force themself to be attracted to a minor? Sin is still sin even if you have ingrained tendencies towards that sin. My only desire is to see the rights and freedoms of Christians preserved. People on your side are going to use discrimination laws to eventually imprison and punish God's people.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
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[color="Navy"]Well, I have addressed the Leviticus texts many times. It's likely, however, that NO ONE knows with any absolute certainty what Leviticus 18:22/20:13 are referring to because we don't have all of the facts. We don't know why such a prohibition was made and all we can contribute are vague guesses. BUT, if YOU. Jeff, can explain in detail what those texts are addressing I would certainly be all ears! In fact, I CHALLENGE you to do just that! YOU are the one that keeps raising the alleged 'abomination' of homosexuality from Leviticus. So, put your money where your mouth is!
Typical. You know, I don't think in all the hundreds of posts I've ever ONCE had my question answered. It's always thrown back in my face. You never addressed the passage. You basically just said we should reject the OT and Paul's writings. God declared it to be wrong. He said it was so wrong that it destroyed other nations. That kinda means it is wrong. The fact that there is not a single verse approving of homosexuality kinda means it is wrong.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
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The 'bedroom' part is quite legit since this is where your supposed 'abomination' is taking place. In the Bible, however, this is not the case. Where 'abominations' are referenced with regard to sex acts this is 'in your face' stuff involving idolatry and temple prostitution. This isn't covert 'bedroom' stuff. Incidentally, I just gave you a clue as to what Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 are possibly referring to. You might want to include this possible scenario in your explanation of these texts that I asked of you.
The verses clearly state that it is unnatural for men to have sex with each other. You constantly keep trying to tie it only in the context of temple prostitution. The verse still says it is unnatural. You can twist and contort it all you want. You can't get away from what the verse clearly says.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
If you can't satisfactorily respond to the question I asked of you about Leviticus and 'abominations' ...then just admit it. You might lose some credibility but at least your honesty will be acknowledged.
At least I don't resort to this kind of petty game. You won't answer my questions. Whatever, I move on, not try to pose a trap situation to look superior like you do here.
The only thing we want is to protect our religious freedoms. If you want to encourage people to sin and possibly go to hell then that's your prerogative. It's a twisted prerogative, if you ask me.
What specific religious freedoms are you protecting?
So a business owner not wanting to get involved in gay weddings = persecution. Wow, what a warped sense of reality you have.
Is that the religious freedom you're concerned about? That you (inclusive "you") will have to take part in a wedding that you think is wrong? Or is your concern broader in scope? If so, in what way?
Is that the religious freedom you're concerned about? That you (inclusive "you") will have to take part in a wedding that you think is wrong? Or is your concern broader in scope? If so, in what way?
Jeff's posts are charged with bigotry. The contents have nothing to do with God or the Bible. I'm sure that most readers to this thread will know this. At the end of the day, however, it doesn't matter. Such bigotry is dying within the Christian Church ...only a few such churches will be clinging to straws to prevent themselves from drowning within a few years. Jeff and company may well inherit God's kingdom but I feel that it will be an awful lonely place.
Last edited by RomulusXXV; 05-29-2016 at 08:07 AM..
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