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But you are all just posting words from a book. What is the SUBSTANCE of your faith?
Explain your faith without scriptures, without religious names or terms.
Demanding that faith in Christ Jesus be explained without the Scriptures is improper. It is one thing for a person who has already believed in Christ Jesus, when examining his beliefs in his own mind, to think in terms of how the Holy Spirit has made these things known to him. But when talking to someone who is an unbeliever one must provide historical evidence for what he proclaims to be true.
And the Christian faith is based on historical events which were witnessed to, and recorded by those who observed the events. Except for Luke, Mark, and perhaps the writer of Hebrews, the writers of the New Testament were eyewitnesses to Jesus' ministry, and to His resurrection. Peter, Paul, James, and John had first hand knowledge of what they recorded in the Scriptures. And they devoted their lives to proclaiming what they had seen. Peter, Paul, and James were martyred for doing so.
You have to decide whether or not you are willing to accept their testimony concerning Jesus. Did the apostles lie? Were they trying to deceive others? Were they just writing fictional stories? Would they have been willing to subject themselves to a lifetime of suffering, and even martyrdom for what they knew to be a lie, or for fictional stories?
Demanding that faith in Christ Jesus be explained without the Scriptures is improper. It is one thing for a person who has already believed in Christ Jesus, when examining his beliefs in his own mind, to think in terms of how the Holy Spirit has made these things known to him. But when talking to someone who is an unbeliever one must provide historical evidence for what he proclaims to be true.
And the Christian faith is based on historical events which were witnessed to, and recorded by those who observed the events. Except for Luke, Mark, and perhaps the writer of Hebrews, the writers of the New Testament were eyewitnesses to Jesus' ministry, and to His resurrection. Peter, Paul, James, and John had first hand knowledge of what they recorded in the Scriptures. And they devoted their lives to proclaiming what they had seen. Peter, Paul, and James were martyred for doing so.
You have to decide whether or not you are willing to accept their testimony concerning Jesus. Did the apostles lie? Were they trying to deceive others? Were they just writing fictional stories? Would they have been willing to subject themselves to a lifetime of suffering, and even martyrdom for what they knew to be a lie, or for fictional stories?
Those are false and empty assumptions. You know that.
Christians tell me that I need to have faith. I feel like I used to have faith that Jesus was a good person and did all of the things that were claimed. But now I feel like the stories represent something different than what is said on the surface level.
But I know that fundamentalists believe that the stories are true, and that they are an encouragement to them. And I believe that they are helped in some way by this faith.
But now, it seems that I am being asked to believe that God came down and performed all of these supernatural acts. Some of them are obviously good things. Feeding and healing. But he said a lot of things that I don't understand.
Who is asking you to believe this?
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So what exactly am I supposed to put my faith in? I believe that God is good. Is that not enough? I believe that his perfect law is to love other people and to give to others what He has blessed us with. Is that still not enough?
I'll one-up you on this. I don't have faith that there is a good God (though I do have hope). But I do have faith that a good God would not base being good to anyone on whether or not they believe anything. If a god does exist who is demanding we believe various things in order to avoid some horrific end, it is the opposite of a good God, so why would I desire to to be aligned with it?
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Why do I have to believe this story? I don't know whether it happened or not. I don't even know for sure if God is powerful enough to perform supernatural acts which contradict the universe that he created. I believe it's possible, but I am not sure.
Why is it not enough just to love God and love other people?
Demanding that faith in Christ Jesus be explained without the Scriptures is improper. It is one thing for a person who has already believed in Christ Jesus, when examining his beliefs in his own mind, to think in terms of how the Holy Spirit has made these things known to him. But when talking to someone who is an unbeliever one must provide historical evidence for what he proclaims to be true.
And the Christian faith is based on historical events which were witnessed to, and recorded by those who observed the events. Except for Luke, Mark, and perhaps the writer of Hebrews, the writers of the New Testament were eyewitnesses to Jesus' ministry, and to His resurrection. Peter, Paul, James, and John had first hand knowledge of what they recorded in the Scriptures. And they devoted their lives to proclaiming what they had seen. Peter, Paul, and James were martyred for doing so.
You have to decide whether or not you are willing to accept their testimony concerning Jesus. Did the apostles lie? Were they trying to deceive others? Were they just writing fictional stories? Would they have been willing to subject themselves to a lifetime of suffering, and even martyrdom for what they knew to be a lie, or for fictional stories?
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Those are false and empty assumptions. You know that.
I know no such thing. I gave you the benefit of the doubt regarding your question in the OP. But your reply here indicates that your question was not sincere. Your statement above shows that you are not willing to accept the objective historical evidence provided by the apostles.
The apostles were historical persons. That fact is attested to by the apostolic church fathers, some of who knew the apostles. That James, Peter, and Paul were martyred is a matter of historical fact and is attested to by the apostolic church fathers. And so again, would the apostles have been willing to suffer and even die for something they knew to be a lie? I think not.
If a god does exist who is demanding we believe various things in order to avoid some horrific end, it is the opposite of a good god, so why would I desire to to be aligned with it?
Religious fanaticism comes from a lack of faith that a God would be good and loving.
It is man who exalts himself to being the judge, jury and executioner of humanity.
And, even if you spoke the truth, many would merely say you're in denial.
They see themselves (and you) as filthy-rags deserving of a wrathful punishment.
Religious fanaticism comes from a lack of faith that a God would be good and loving.
It is man who exalts himself to being the judge, jury and executioner of humanity.
And, even if you spoke the truth, many would merely say you're in denial.
They see themselves (and you) as filthy-rags deserving of a wrathful punishment.
So true, Jerwade. That is why I find it so sad that Christianity has dismissed what Paul claimed as it's mission: to be ambassadors to a world that too often suffers under the belief in a wrathful god, of the news that God is not holding the sins of the world against them.
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