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One of the Ten Commandants is, "Thou shalt not kill" so no verse in the bible is needed after that. Millions see the unborn baby as a helpless human that is being killed.
Perhaps so. But the "kill" in that commandment (actually "murder") involves HUMAN LIFE. And the Jews simply did not consider a fetus inside the mother's womb to be a nephesh-- a living being--until it was halfway out of the womb in normal childbirth.
That you wish to see it that way is one thing. You have lots of company. But saying it is "God's Word" is an outright lie proven by none other than Scripture itself and the intention with which those words about a mother's life and a fetus being so very different.
Put any kind of cultural spin on it you wish. Everyone is entitled to a cultural viewpoint--including those who disagree with us. But claiming it comes from the "Word" is a falsification with justifiable punishment from heavenly authorities.
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I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelations 22:18-19
Quoted out of context, of course, but that is the modus operandi of many fundamentalists regarding Scripture. Find one that fits and use it as a club!! Trouble is, some folks are smart enough to know how to take it away and turn it around!
No one should add "cultural" proclivities to Scripture that had its own ancient cultural ideas injected into it when it was written.
The law of the land is one thing. But claiming it is a part of God's "word" is clearly a lie. The outcry against abortion by some (the nation is certainly split) is culture, it is not God and never has been. There aren't even a few clues about abortion as "sinful."
The reason we cannot reach any kind of compromise is simply silly and akin to the whole "gun" issue. The two sides actually have many, many people that would compromise.
If someone says they are opposed to all abortions, I have no problem with that. But when they claim "God's Word" says it is wrong, I'm here to call them out and ask for Scripture verses in context. They can't do it without making up a creative story to twist the verse into something it is not. Neither can you. So be honest. The disgusting part of it, is that the same politicians calling for an end to abortion are the ones voting to cut funds for children's lunch programs, to limit mental health care facilities that might need to care for challenged non-aborted children, and to provide for day care for disadvantaged mothers who cannot work and care for a child. It is hypocrisy.
And, by the way, those Jewish "laws" are in your Catholic Bible, so it is as incumbent upon you as anyone else to know the verbiage, the cultural context, and the various translations if you wish to appear knowledgeable.
I usually avoid abortion debates because I am double-minded about them. I am opposed to society enacting any laws making it a criminal act. Women have and should have the legal right to control their own reproductive practices, period. The government has no role to play in it whatsoever. However, my soul is sorely stressed and agonized over the scale of the slaughter and the recent expose' about the commercialization of baby parts from these abortions. The extent of the callousness regarding the unborn is the result of the euphemisms used to talk about them. Calling the babies "medical waste" that would otherwise be thrown in the trash does NOT justify charging for parts from a grotesque medical procedure that has already been paid for.
Fetus, parasitic growth, and similar rhetoric abound and disguise the truth that these women are killing their own offspring rather than give them life. I will defend their legal right to do so, but I will not pretend they are NOT killing their own children. Psychologically, I know they need to distance themselves from the truth using the euphemisms, but I will not play along. I mourn for every single unborn human life that is deliberately taken. Miscarriages and spontaneous abortions and such have nothing to do with the mother or anyone else. But the deliberate killing of the tiny human life that has begun agonizes my soul. I understand that there are myriad and often terrible circumstances that can drive a woman to this extreme act of destruction, but I will not pretend it is what it is not.
I usually avoid abortion debates because I am double-minded about them. I am opposed to society enacting any laws making it a criminal act. Women have and should have the legal right to control their own reproductive practices, period. The government has no role to play in it whatsoever. However, my soul is sorely stressed and agonized over the scale of the slaughter and the recent expose' about the commercialization of baby parts from these abortions. The extent of the callousness regarding the unborn is the result of the euphemisms used to talk about them. Calling the babies "medical waste" that would otherwise be thrown in the trash does NOT justify charging for parts from a grotesque medical procedure that has already been paid for.
Fetus, parasitic growth, and similar rhetoric abound and disguise the truth that these women are killing their own offspring rather than give them life. I will defend their legal right to do so, but I will not pretend they are NOT killing their own children. Psychologically, I know they need to distance themselves from the truth using the euphemisms, but I will not play along. I mourn for every single unborn human life that is deliberately taken. Miscarriages and spontaneous abortions and such have nothing to do with the mother or anyone else. But the deliberate killing of the tiny human life that has begun agonizes my soul. I understand that there are myriad and often terrible circumstances that can drive a woman to this extreme act of destruction, but I will not pretend it is what it is not.
I am with you. It's so important to increase access to education, and birth control. Abstinence just doesn't work for most of us. If we can help women keep from becoming pregnant in the first place, abortion rates will drop dramatically. We also need much better support for Moms who choose not to abort, whether that be easier access to child-care, welfare help, help with working if she can and what not.
I usually avoid abortion debates because I am double-minded about them. I am opposed to society enacting any laws making it a criminal act. Women have and should have the legal right to control their own reproductive practices, period. The government has no role to play in it whatsoever. However, my soul is sorely stressed and agonized over the scale of the slaughter and the recent expose' about the commercialization of baby parts from these abortions. The extent of the callousness regarding the unborn is the result of the euphemisms used to talk about them. Calling the babies "medical waste" that would otherwise be thrown in the trash does NOT justify charging for parts from a grotesque medical procedure that has already been paid for.
Fetus, parasitic growth, and similar rhetoric abound and disguise the truth that these women are killing their own offspring rather than give them life. I will defend their legal right to do so, but I will not pretend they are NOT killing their own children. Psychologically, I know they need to distance themselves from the truth using the euphemisms, but I will not play along. I mourn for every single unborn human life that is deliberately taken. Miscarriages and spontaneous abortions and such have nothing to do with the mother or anyone else. But the deliberate killing of the tiny human life that has begun agonizes my soul. I understand that there are myriad and often terrible circumstances that can drive a woman to this extreme act of destruction, but I will not pretend it is what it is not.
Never heard such a brilliant answer, thanks, Mystic.
I usually avoid abortion debates because I am double-minded about them. I am opposed to society enacting any laws making it a criminal act. Women have and should have the legal right to control their own reproductive practices, period. The government has no role to play in it whatsoever. However, my soul is sorely stressed and agonized over the scale of the slaughter and the recent expose' about the commercialization of baby parts from these abortions. The extent of the callousness regarding the unborn is the result of the euphemisms used to talk about them. Calling the babies "medical waste" that would otherwise be thrown in the trash does NOT justify charging for parts from a grotesque medical procedure that has already been paid for.
Fetus, parasitic growth, and similar rhetoric abound and disguise the truth that these women are killing their own offspring rather than give them life. I will defend their legal right to do so, but I will not pretend they are NOT killing their own children. Psychologically, I know they need to distance themselves from the truth using the euphemisms, but I will not play along. I mourn for every single unborn human life that is deliberately taken. Miscarriages and spontaneous abortions and such have nothing to do with the mother or anyone else. But the deliberate killing of the tiny human life that has begun agonizes my soul. I understand that there are myriad and often terrible circumstances that can drive a woman to this extreme act of destruction, but I will not pretend it is what it is not.
I don't disagree with your viewpoint. Yet at the same time it isn't "biblical," and that is MY point. If culture is what drives it, that is one thing. But remember culture once included killing young children on a sacrificial altar. So culture is always suspect in its motives.
If one can't argue the point reasonably without resorting to "the bible says its wrong," then they haven't got a good argument. The anti-abortion movie which most impacted me on this question is Bella. All the actors are unknown, but the emotional impact of that movie on the "what-ifs" is very powerful.
And the fact is, should government make abortions illegal, it only means they are illegal for the poorest of our nation. The middle class and wealthy would fly their daughters and wives to another country for a quick "fix." It's all about self-righteous control of the most vulnerable people in the nation---our poor--whom we will not provide humanitarian help (child care for workers, health care, decent pay, etc. ) to once they have that unwanted or deformed child. If we ever had the heart to "fix" THAT, then an anti-abortion law would not be so onerous.
I don't disagree with your viewpoint. Yet at the same time it isn't "biblical," and that is MY point. If culture is what drives it, that is one thing. But remember culture once included killing young children on a sacrificial altar. So culture is always suspect in its motives.
If one can't argue the point reasonably without resorting to "the bible says its wrong," then they haven't got a good argument. The anti-abortion movie which most impacted me on this question is Bella. All the actors are unknown, but the emotional impact of that movie on the "what-ifs" is very powerful.
And the fact is, should government make abortions illegal, it only means they are illegal for the poorest of our nation. The middle class and wealthy would fly their daughters and wives to another country for a quick "fix." It's all about self-righteous control of the most vulnerable people in the nation---our poor--whom we will not provide humanitarian help (child care for workers, health care, decent pay, etc. ) to once they have that unwanted or deformed child. If we ever had the heart to "fix" THAT, then an anti-abortion law would not be so onerous.
But what about all the wonderful programs for children the Democrats say they passed? I guess they would rather let the children die instead of taking advantage of those wonderful programs. Maybe they didn't have such wonderful programs in the first place, just talk, all allusion.
But what about all the wonderful programs for children the Democrats say they passed? I guess they would rather let the children die instead of taking advantage of those wonderful programs. Maybe they didn't have such wonderful programs in the first place, just talk, all allusion.
I see now. Your religion is about politics, not about what is right and wrong. Politicians generally lie-- on both sides of the aisle because corporations control them.
What about the school lunch program that Republicans tried to cut?
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House Republicans recently proposed cuts to nutrition assistance that will kick 280,000 low-income children off automatic enrollment in the Free School Lunch and Breakfast Program. Those same kids and 1.5 million other people will also lose their Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (formerly food stamp benefits) that help them afford food at home.
Ten years’ worth of these nutrition cuts could be prevented for the price of one year of tax cuts on 3,340 multimillion dollar estates that House Republicans are protecting in their budget.
They called that program "low-priority." That's because guys like Trump are HIGH priority.
Or how about food stamps for hungry people. Food stamps that are spent in privately owned stores that the Repubs are always talking about supporting?
Quote:
House Republicans are set to unveil a budget on Tuesday morning that will reportedlyslice over a hundred billion dollars out of the food stamps program over the coming decade.
Such cuts would amount to about 15 percent of the program’s projected spending over those years. The cost of the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) is already declining naturally as the economy recovers and fewer families need the safety net, and Congress has already cut billions of dollars from the program in recent years.
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New York City’s food banks started running out of food and turning away needy people last winter after a far smaller cut than the one being proposed this year. One in six food banks and food kitchens nationwide is worried about running out of resources and having to close the doors, according to a survey last summer by the national food charity network Feeding America.
Or how about how they wish us to deal with mental health and addiction problems?
Quote:
The Republicans FY14 budget would've enacted a drastic 20% cut in non-defense discretionary programs that would improve the response to the heroin and opioid epidemics. In 2014 alone, the Ryan budget would cut funding for these programs by an additional 20% beyond the cuts already needed to comply with the BCA caps. This across-the-board cut is calculated relative to what funding would be compared to the BCA caps in FY14. The Senate-drafted appropriations bills for FY14 were drafted with the intent of replacing sequester, and are used as the baseline funding levels. [CBPP, 3/27/13]
Ryan Budget Threatened Large Cuts To Mental Health And Substance Abuse Services. "Major health and environment programs threatened with large cuts under the Ryan budget include: [...] Mental health and substance abuse services. These grants help states prevent and treat alcohol and drug abuse and provide community mental health services to adults and children with serious mental illness. In 2008, over two million individuals attended substance abuse facilities that received federal funding; over six million received federally supported mental health services." [CBPP, 3/27/13]
Programs like SNAP, developed by a bi-partisan group in the sixties, is now anathema to "good christian" Republicans.
Meanwhile they are strong supporters of the F-35 joint strike fighter that has been in development for over 15 years and is not expected to even be in our Air Force before 2021. And the cost, at this point, is an estimated $133 million per aircraft for us, and one of our allies, Norway, which has been a part of the project, states each of their six aircraft will cost $789 million.
God, we sure will feel safer in 2021. And those kids lunch programs and mental health and substance abuse programs being cut will assist with the billions of overrun costs which even John McCain said were a result of "cronyism."
Yep, as a Christian who sees Jesus as an example of pacifism, I certainly wish children to starve and that those mentally challenged adults loose on the streets with freedom to buy all the guns they want aren't discomforted.
Oh, yeah, janelle, you've certainly revealed what your "values" really are. They just don't resemble Christianity.
Religious people generally want no condoms and no abortions. It increases the number of adherants to their religion. Take the religion out and then convince me.
I see now. Your religion is about politics, not about what is right and wrong. Politicians generally lie-- on both sides of the aisle because corporations control them.
What about the school lunch program that Republicans tried to cut?
Programs like SNAP, developed by a bi-partisan group in the sixties, is now anathema to "good christian" Republicans.
Meanwhile they are strong supporters of the F-35 joint strike fighter that has been in development for over 15 years and is not expected to even be in our Air Force before 2021. And the cost, at this point, is an estimated $133 million per aircraft for us, and one of our allies, Norway, which has been a part of the project, states each of their six aircraft will cost $789 million.
God, we sure will feel safer in 2021. And those kids lunch programs and mental health and substance abuse programs being cut will assist with the billions of overrun costs which even John McCain said were a result of "cronyism."
Yep, as a Christian who sees Jesus as an example of pacifism, I certainly wish children to starve and that those mentally challenged adults loose on the streets with freedom to buy all the guns they want aren't discomforted.
Oh, yeah, janelle, you've certainly revealed what your "values" really are. They just don't resemble Christianity.
You must think Republicans are very powerful even when the Democrats were in power. Those programs should be in force and even better now, what happened if they are gone?
Churches take up where Politics fail and they do a darn good job in helping and feeding people, etc but churches can't upgrade the military that is the government's job.
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