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16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." -Jesus
Sure, but your "God is holy and condemns" doctrines do not convey that God loves.
It is truly an INSANE belief that corrupts by fear the heart of everyone who believes it. It increases the resistance to the Spirit of agape love and prevents really understanding God or Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The Bible condemns a lot of things which is why you and your cohorts are so condemning. What did Jesus condemn???? He didn't even condemn those ignorant brutal savages that scourged and crucified Him. He loved them and forgave them!!! So, who'ya gonna believe, eh???
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Jesus said God is NOT counting our sins against us and He loved and forgave those who not only rejected Him they scourged and crucified Him. So, who'ya gonna believe, eh???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin
Read the scripture, Mystic ! It seems you always take one scripture and build you theory of what you want rather then what God wants ! What a shame !
No, Cyber. I have read and do read the scripture. The difference is that I use a very different CONTEXT for the nature of God and His motives. Everything you read is corrupted by the belief that God is wrathful and needed to be appeased by blood sacrifice. Everything I read is blessed by the knowledge that God IS agape love and needed nothing to appease Him. He just wants our love. When you read with that context, none of the things you believe about God's wrath and condemnation are true.
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Jesus said that many will come in His name and deceive the ppl into believing lies . And we can see that all throughout this forum of the false teachers trying to pass their doctrine to be truth when Jesus taught differently.
It's a shame how they will put just enough of God's word in their theory, doctrine and twist the rest, majority of their teaching of what they think and want it to say rather than what Christ spoke and taught .
What lies have we asked you to believe? We ask you to believe Jesus did what He said He did - saved the world - and to do what He said to do - love God and each other every day and repent when you don't. ARE those lies??? Do you believe He is our Savior and that we should love God and each other every day and repent when we don't???
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Read for your self below and take it too the Holy Scripture (Bible) and do some studying, cross referencing because there is a whole lot more to be read and learn from the scripture below .
I have played this interpretation game with scripture to no avail because your interpretations are fixed by the CONTEXT of a wrathful God. But I will interpret Romans 8 in the Spirit of agape love to show you how your interpretation is corrupted by the wrong context. Since most of the typical translations are already corrupted by the wrong context, I will use Youngs Literal to minimize the corruptions. I usually do an exegesis using the actual language but I simply do not feel that ambitious. You can assume that I have done so in the past (because I have many times) or not. Remember whenever I refer to the Spirit it is the Spirit of agape love revealed and demonstrated by Christ.
Romans 8 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
8 There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
2 for the law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus did set me free from the law of the sin and of the death;
3 for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Here we see that the actual purpose of Christ's life and death was to reveal that mastery over the flesh (condemning the sin in His flesh) motivated by the Spirit is life so that the actual purpose of the law could be fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit.
5 For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit;
6 for the mind of the flesh [is] death, and the mind of the Spirit -- life and peace;
7 because the mind of the flesh [is] enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself,
8 for neither is it able; and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.
9 And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ -- this one is not His;
10 and if Christ [is] in you, the body, indeed, [is] dead because of sin, and the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness,
11 and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you.
12 So, then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh;
13 for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live;
14 for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God;
15 for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba -- Father.'
16 The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God;
17 and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ -- if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory about to be revealed in us;
19 for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
20 for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject [it] -- in hope,
21 that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;
22 for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now.
23 And not only [so], but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;
24 for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for [it]?
25 and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect [it].
Here we see the complete promise and the criteria to be "in Christ." Those who are "in Christ" are motivated by the Spirit and do not concern themselves with things of the flesh they concern themselves with things of the Spirit. The promise is that we, like Jesus, will be "born again"(quickened) as Spirit upon our death eliminating any fear of death. We are children of God and heirs with Christ the "first fruit" of the Spirit through adoption of His Holy Spirit of agape love. This is the hope that is to motivate our life so we can overcome and endure to the end.
26 And, in like manner also, the Spirit doth help our weaknesses; for, what we may pray for, as it behoveth [us], we have not known, but the Spirit himself doth make intercession for us with groanings unutterable,
27 and He who is searching the hearts hath known what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because according to God he doth intercede for saints.
28 And we have known that to those loving God all things do work together for good, to those who are called according to purpose;
29 because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;
30 and whom He did fore-appoint, these also He did call; and whom He did call, these also He declared righteous; and whom He declared righteous, these also He did glorify.
31 What, then, shall we say unto these things? if God [is] for us, who [is] against us?
32 He who indeed His own Son did not spare, but for us all did deliver him up, how shall He not also with him the all things grant to us?
33 Who shall lay a charge against the choice ones of God? God [is] He that is declaring righteous,
34 who [is] he that is condemning? Christ [is] He that died, yea, rather also, was raised up; who is also on the right hand of God -- who also doth intercede for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of the Christ? tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 (according as it hath been written -- `For Thy sake we are put to death all the day long, we were reckoned as sheep of slaughter,')
37 but in all these we more than conquer, through him who loved us;
38 for I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor messengers, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present,
39 nor things about to be, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, that [is] in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And here the specifics of the promise of the New Covenant are revealed. We are not alone. Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit (Comforter) will guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" and strengthen our weaknesses. When we are conformed to Jesus in agape love, we are declared righteous by God so no one is condemning us and nothing can separate us from the agape love of God that is in Christ Jesus.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 08-13-2016 at 07:28 PM..
As usual scripture is being twisted and once again another one of those gotcha points . Not so !
Those who reject Christ reject God's offer . Those who accept Christ become God's elect !
Now with the scripture Romans 8:34,
Romans 8:34(NASB)
34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
.......what that scripture is saying Jesus Christ has been appointed to judge and bring condemnation upon upon sin. For the Father has given all judgment to the Son .
John 5:19-23 (NASB)
19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.
20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.
22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
However, as a Christians we do not face condemnation (Rom. 8:1) because Christ the Judge has died and makes intercession for us (the Christian) .
Romans 8:1
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
All those who reject Him and live in sin are condemned through the appointed Judge Jesus Christ !
Just like it says in John 3:16-18
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him.
18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned,but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
Very simple to read and comprehend ! You can not skirt around it and try to make it say something different. But of course there will be those who will try and prove differently, yet, God will one day reveal this truth to those hearts who keep denying this truth of God !
I do hope ppl will repent and turn to Christ !
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 08-13-2016 at 08:25 PM..
Reason: Add scripture Romans 8:34 and Romans 8:1
As usual scripture is being twisted and once again another one of those gotcha points . Not so !
Those who reject Christ reject God's offer . Those who accept Christ become God's elect !
Now with the scripture Romans 8:34, what that scripture is saying Jesus Christ has been appointed to judge and bring condemnation upon upon sin. For the Father has given all judgment to the Son .
What is with the "gotcha" stuff? Why would you think I'm trying to get you, Cyber? I simply abhor what the belief that God and/or Jesus condemns does to and in the hearts and minds of people. But, here is Romans 8:34 again.
34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
It says NO ONE condemns, and not only is Jesus not condemning, he's interceding. That is what your bible says, no twisting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Okey doke. I'll take the very first verse that Cyber posted:
She said that this passage is about Jesus condemning.
In reality the verse says the exact opposite:
34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
The verse says that Jesus is INTERCEDING FOR, not condemning.
Ah, expat. Some of us do not feel bound to parsing out bible verses when the corruption of the doctrines being presented speak for itself. What you are calling stupidity is actually the hard-won freedom of freak and myself from being under the heavy burden of those types of doctrines, which allows us to see them for the evil that they are, and were at one time in our lives. Mystic and trout and jerwade have always been able to see them for what they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Okey doke. I'll take the very first verse that Cyber posted:
She said that this passage is about Jesus condemning.
In reality the verse says the exact opposite: 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. The verse says that Jesus is INTERCEDING FOR, not condemning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
John 3
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." -Jesus
What does the bold say, about condemning, jimmie???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Sure, but your "God is holy and condemns" doctrines do not convey that God loves.
They only see what the CONTEXT of a wrathful God allows them to see, Pleroo.
May I hold your hand and walk with you through it a step at a time?
I agree, God does not make mistakes. But nature does. Nature can go off her meds and be crazy chaotic.
I've been diagnosed by two medical doctors and a licensed therapist. If I were simply confused, they would have caught it, and most definitely would not have put me on a hormone regimen, they are far too dangerous to experiment with. I have blood work done every few months to make sure I'm still in good (for me) health. There are many horrible side effects. If I had to pick one to have, I'd take the aneurism, the others are much worse.
That's awesome Bryan. Congratulations, seriously. I know how hard addictions are to break, but the only things I'm addicted to are caffeine and nicotine. Gender dysphoria isn't an addiction.
I'm not confused, see above.
No problem, no offense taken.
I understand your annoyance of the media. They annoy me too. When I watched TV back in the 1830s (hyperbole--a long time ago) and some reporter was interviewing someone who had just suffered tragedy, and they'd ask something like "how do you feel?" Ugh. I mean, really? How do you think they feel?
Ok, went off the road a bit, sorry
This isn't a media issue, it's a medical issue.
As I said, I do not understand this issue. Maybe you are right in your conclusions. Thanks for not taking offense, and responding in a respectful manner. I wish and pray the best for you.
As I said, I do not understand this issue. Maybe you are right in your conclusions. Thanks for not taking offense, and responding in a respectful manner. I wish and pray the best for you.
It's tough to wrap your head around, I totally get that. You're very welcome, and I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers as well.
God's holiness condemns us, His love redeems us (John 3:16)
Any God whose nature was such that it demanded the condemnation of people for not believing the "correct doctrines" about redemption, is not love, and isn't capable of loving. Knowing this, and based on the idea that God IS love and is loving, it is apparent that you have a mistaken view of what "holiness" is, and of what it might "demand". (Since God is love and love does not demand it's own way, "demand" is not an accurate word to use).
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