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34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
It says NO ONE condemns, and not only is Jesus not condemning, he's interceding. That is what your bible says, no twisting.
Here's what it says:
31 If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Although you are correct in saying "no one", I don't see it. However, keep in mind this letter was written to the Church (those in Christ). It does NOT apply to the non-believers.
Any God whose nature was such that it demanded the condemnation of people for not believing the "correct doctrines" about redemption, is not love, and isn't capable of loving. Knowing this, and based on the idea that God IS love and is loving, it is apparent that you have a mistaken view of what "holiness" is, and of what it might "demand". (Since God is love and love does not demand it's own way, "demand" is not an accurate word to use).
It has nothing to do with doctrine, but rather being redeemed from sin. Jesus called being "born again" (John 3).
It has nothing to do with doctrine, but rather being redeemed from sin. Jesus called being "born again" (John 3).
It has everything to do with doctrine. You proclaim that God demands that people must believe the mechanism by which God supposedly redeems people (substitutionary atonement), in order for them to BE redeemed -- which makes the doctrine an inextricable part of the mechanism.
If one's interpretation is in conflict with Jesus message, it is wrongly interpreted.
Continuing with this line of misunderstanding, what did Jesus mean by "born Again" if this is the correctly translated word from the original that no longer exists..
31 If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Although you are correct in saying "no one", I don't see it. However, keep in mind this letter was written to the Church (those in Christ). It does NOT apply to the non-believers.
See the NLT and NIV translations of that passage. It was the translators' choice, apparently, to include words which were obviously implied by the context.
As for who it was written to, it doesn't matter. The point was that Cyber USED that passage to say that Jesus condemns, when that is clearly NOT what the passage says, but rather just the opposite.
It has everything to do with doctrine. You proclaim that God demands that people must believe the mechanism by which God supposedly redeems people (substitutionary atonement), in order for them to BE redeemed -- which makes the doctrine an inextricable part of the mechanism.
Ok, fair enough, but it is not doctrineS, as you stated earlier.
If one's interpretation is in conflict with Jesus message, it is wrongly interpreted.
Continuing with this line of misunderstanding, what did Jesus mean by "born Again" if this is the correctly translated word from the original that no longer exists..
You would not know what Jesus said without scripture. Therefore, it CANNOT be in conflict with His message.
You would not know what Jesus said without scripture. Therefore, it CANNOT be in conflict with His message.
Correct,
Scripture already said God condemns. In VS 34 we are asked who condemns "believers". Now that would be true believers not those spoken of in Matt 7:21-23. Context is critical.
As to adding "no one". The NIV I have does not.
NIV Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died-- more than that, who was raised to life-- is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Now the NLV does, but when a translation adds words, one must see a basis for it. Yes in translating from one language to another using more than one word for another word does not always give the full thought, but adding better have another basis. Using on translation at odds with others takes research in the language and grammar to be sure and usually finding others that agree helps.
In this case the question is asked and then the answer is given. It isn't no one condemning everyone or anyone, it is (no one) condemns believers as Christ intercedes for those who truly believe. Those who do not, still stand condemned.
Scripture already said God condemns. In VS 34 we are asked who condemns "believers". Now that would be true believers not those spoken of in Matt 7:21-23. Context is critical.
As to adding "no one". The NIV I have does not.
NIV Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died-- more than that, who was raised to life-- is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Now the NLV does, but when a translation adds words, one must see a basis for it. Yes in translating from one language to another using more than one word for another word does not always give the full thought, but adding better have another basis. Using on translation at odds with others takes research in the language and grammar to be sure and usually finding others that agree helps.
In this case the question is asked and then the answer is given. It isn't no one condemning everyone or anyone, it is (no one) condemns believers as Christ intercedes for those who truly believe. Those who do not, still stand condemned.
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However, keep in mind this letter was written to the Church (those in Christ). It does NOT apply to the non-believers.
