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Originally Posted by Kode
Yup, you would be wrong because the bible contradicts itself from one story to another, so you can find the opposite answer elsewhere in the bible. That's their trick. They're showing you that the bible cannot be taken literally and cannot be trusted.
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Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
Meh, not through my eyes.
I mean that the bible only proves itself from stowrey to story.
What happens in the garden stays in the garden.
Everything I checked in that website said "incorrect" no matter which answer you chose, and then quoted a different verse in a different book to "prove" it.
Everything I checked in that website said "incorrect" no matter which answer you chose, and then quoted a different verse in a different book to "prove" it.
Ah, but the verse they quoted as the correct one. Was it correct? Hmmm....?
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In Mark 15:25 crucifixion takes place at the third hour (9 a.m.) and Jesus' death at the ninth hour (3 p.m.). However, in John 19:14 Jesus is still before Pilate at the sixth hour.
No, not at all. You don't have to take anyone's word for it. Just ask Him to reveal His Son to you with a PURE MOTIVE, and He will do so. And when HE does, NO ONE on the face of the earth will be able to tell you He didn't. Peace
Great, another middle man. Does god actually do anything?
Thrillobyte - If the Christian faith rests on the complete accuracy of who was at the tomb, or who carried the cross when, then you would have a point.
The truth is the Christian faith rests on the fact that Jesus rose from the dead.
In every gospel account, the number of dead people that remained in the tomb was zero. This is the weightier issue at hand... not some secondary and tertiary details.
It just goes to show you that you cannot believe everything you hear.
It also goes to show you cannot believe everything you read.
Seriously, all I ask of a holy book is that it hangs together logically and philosophically (or theologically, if you want) The Bible has too many contradictions and errors to be the product of a Holy God. There's a simple reason why no one can get above a zero on that quiz: there's always another answer somewhere else in another gospel that will contradict the first answer. This shows that one writer didn't know what the others writers were writing, so they naturally couldn't get their facts straight. Not having had fax machines back then they couldn't fact-check-one gospel against the next so naturally errors and contradictions were inevitably going to pop up all over the place.
Do we blame Jesus? Of course not. Jesus isn't responsible for what writers wrote about him 60 years later.
Do we blame the writers? Certainly not. They had nothing to go on except stories and word-of-mouth stuff that had been floating around for 50 years, getting changed with each retelling.
Who bears ultimate blame? The Holy Spirit, of course, because he was supposed to be overseeing all this writing and making sure either the originals were well preserved in a Qumran cave somewhere, or keeping all the writers writing the same thing so that no charges of mistakes could be brought against the gospels. That the HS failed to do this is just another indication as I stated earlier that God doesn't really care if the writing are straight or not. He just let everything get written any which way it got written. If the HS had really been involved in this there would be no need for boards like CD. Everything in the gospels would be so crystal clear and in agreement with each other that it'd be impossible to debate a single issue.
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Thrillobyte - If the Christian faith rests on the complete accuracy of who was at the tomb, or who carried the cross when, then you would have a point.
The truth is the Christian faith rests on the fact that Jesus rose from the dead.
In every gospel account, the number of dead people that remained in the tomb was zero. This is the weightier issue at hand... not some secondary and tertiary details.
Rob, I've only ever asked for one thing: show me a single secular historical reference to the empty tomb written by a known historian within 90 years of Jesus' birth---something outside the gospels and epistles---and I would believe in Jesus in a heartbeat. I don't accept Josephus' account written circa 99 CE because everyone knows it is an interpolation. And even if it was real Josephus was not an eyewitness to the event. He was hearing retells of stories told hundreds of times over the 70 years since Christ's supposed resurrection. Without some kind of secular historical corroboration written close to the event we're left totally in the dark and we cannot rely on biased accounts written by churchmen 60 years after the fact.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 08-18-2016 at 11:20 AM..
Thrillobyte - If the Christian faith rests on the complete accuracy of who was at the tomb, or who carried the cross when, then you would have a point.
The truth is the Christian faith rests on the fact that Jesus rose from the dead.
In every gospel account, the number of dead people that remained in the tomb was zero. This is the weightier issue at hand... not some secondary and tertiary details.
It should also be considered that the law and the prophets are a foundation and I don't put letters from Paul and others in the same category as the law and the prophets, and of course people will find contradictions in the law and the prophets but I don't see any. I pretty much know all the contradictions already, the ones people like to point out but it wouldn't move somebody like me, or even most people, you believe or you don't.
It should also be considered that the law and the prophets are a foundation and I don't put letters from Paul and others in the same category as the law and the prophets, and of course people will find contradictions in the law and the prophets but I don't see any. I pretty much know all the contradictions already, the ones people like to point out but it wouldn't move somebody like me, or even most people, you believe or you don't.
Exactly. I didn't believe what was written in a book; I had never even read the book prior to believing. What I believed was what was done to me, in my heart, that was like a stone being thrown into a lake, with ripples going out in every part of me.
And AFTER THAT, 4 days later of what turned into a 10 day experience, I was told and then found in a book I had never read, what had happened to me on day 1 in a personal singular period of crying out to an unknown G-d (unknown to me).
It's not about what you read, it's about what you experience that no man can do to you, or you do to yourself. Every man is given a measure of faith to receive Him. The only measure required is to cry out to Him ONE TIME. Just that much faith, is all it took, and I was never the same from that day forth. And it is more valuable than diamonds, rubies or gold; nothing can compare. Peace
Rob, I've only ever asked for one thing: show me a single secular historical reference to the empty tomb written by a known historian within 90 years of Jesus' birth---something outside the gospels and epistles---and I would believe in Jesus in a heartbeat. I don't accept Josephus' account written circa 99 CE because everyone knows it is an interpolation. And even if it was real Josephus was not an eyewitness to the event. He was hearing retells of stories told hundreds of times over the 70 years since Christ's supposed resurrection. Without some kind of secular historical corroboration written close to the event we're left totally in the dark and we cannot rely on biased accounts written by churchmen 60 years after the fact.
I love it...
Show me something outside of the Bible... and oh yeah - the guy outside of the Bible that mentioned it, he doesn't count.
Actually - this also proves another of the statements I have made.
When the Bible shows a difference in some of the details - you say it's flawed because of contradictions.
When Josephus' account agrees with the biblical content - you say it's flawed because he copied their accounts.
It's a no win scenario that you have built up in your own mind. Just admit you don't want to believe, and move on with your life and enjoy the rest of your existence on the earth.
Last edited by DRob4JC; 08-18-2016 at 11:50 AM..
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