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Yes, and I see a clear contradiction. I am asking you to explain it. BTW, I never saw God described AS "wrath" in scripture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham
Are you serious?
Isaiah 66
1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
I miss the word "wrath" entirely, though I see contrite as one of the things God appreciates. Concern for the damage a person may do to himself and/or others is a characteristic of love. but any "anger" or "wrath" is just a perception of the person receiving the consequences of his actions.
It seems likely that your rebuttal will be completely ignored, nate.
Psalms 50
22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.
The Psalmist sounds a lot like some of the Christians that post here throwing out threats: "Believe what I believe about God being wrath, or God will tear you to pieces".
The Psalmist sounds a lot like some of the Christians that post here throwing out threats: "Believe what I believe about God being wrath, or God will tear you to pieces".
The truth comes out. You people don't like the Bible; You serve another god. Here's Jesus talking in the Bible:
Matthew 10
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The truth comes out. You people don't like the Bible; You serve another god. Here's Jesus talking in the Bible:
Matthew 10
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Chill, your ANGER and WRATH is making your image of god look lie a boy scout...
The truth comes out. You people don't like the Bible; You serve another god. Here's Jesus talking in the Bible:
Matthew 10
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Who ever said I liked the bible to begin with???
You may be right, but that fear ought to be towards the LIVING WORD, not some crack-pot written word.
And again, why FEAR someone who is LOVE--one only FEARS TYRANTS and DICTATORS who tell you DO THIS OR DIE...
The GOD I KNOW says I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU nor WILL I EVER CAST YOU OUT!!
AFTER ALL, does not L O V E cast out ALL FEARS...???
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Read the whole message and not just the bold underlined part that proves God is love.
But biblical proof hardly equates to REAL proof. Just like when atheist ask godists to submit proof for their god, and the godists begin citing their bible...well, that is simply Circular Reasoning and is one of the Great Five Fallacies of debate and rhetoric.
Saying the bible proves anything is like saying that, in Greek Mythology, the story of, say, Zeus "proves" he can rain down thunderbolts! LOL
God is not said to be wrath, but that His wrath is expressed against sin and evil in judgment. The Greek word is ὀργὴ - orgē.
BDAG defines ὀργὴ as,
1. state of relatively strong displeasure, w. focus on the emotional aspect, anger
2. strong indignation directed at wrongdoing, w. focus on retribution, wrath
Verses such as Matthew 3:7, Luke 3:7, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Ephesians 5:6, Col. 3:6, and Romans 5:9 speak of God's wrath - ὀργὴ to come in future judgment.
The fact that God is love in no way contradicts the fact that God must judge sin and evil. Wrath as applied to God simply refers to His justice expressed in judgment against sin and evil.
To use an analogy, in the human realm, no matter how much a father loves his son, if he has a strong sense of justice, a strong sense of right and wrong, if the son commits a crime deserving even of the death penalty, the father will turn his son in to face the consequences of his crime.
Should it be any less expected of God who is love to judge sin and evil in the human race according to His own standards?
God is love, but He is not only love. In the Revelation which Jesus gave to John, Revelation 6:16-17 speaks of the wrath of God the Father and of the Lamb (Jesus Christ).
Concerning that future time,
Rev. 6:16 and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17] for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
However, no church-age believer will have to go though that future Tribulation. Nor will any believer ever lose his salvation and be sent to the lake of fire, whatever the actual nature of that place is.
The truth comes out. You people don't like the Bible; You serve another god. Here's Jesus talking in the Bible:
Matthew 10
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
And, because you believe that God IS wrath, you automatically assume he was saying that God destroys, even though your bible says that satan, not God, comes to kill and destroy.
and HATE, and OPPRESSION, and JEALOUSY, and INSECURITIES, and BIGOTRY, and FEAR, and DOUBT, and
ooops...my bad..that is the god evangelicals believe in, not the GOD I KNOW...
Yep. They will die out eventually along with the fundamentalists of other religions. An extinction to look forward to, as far as I am concerned.
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Yep. They will die out eventually along with the fundamentalists of other religions. An extinction to look forward to, as far as I am concerned.
