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I look at John, chapter one, and see this (bolded). Says to me, taken at face value that Jesus was God in a human body. Well how can that BE? I do concede that God can be in two places at once. So why not?
John chapter One:
*In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2*He was in the beginning with God. 3*All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4*In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5*And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
John’s Witness: The True Light
6*There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7*This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8*He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9*That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.[b]
10*He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11*He came to His own,[c] and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12*But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13*who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Becomes Flesh
14*And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
I look at John, chapter one, and see this (bolded). Says to me, taken at face value that Jesus was God in a human body. Well how can that BE? I do concede that God can be in two places at once. So why not?
John chapter One:
*In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2*He was in the beginning with God. 3*All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4*In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5*And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
John’s Witness: The True Light
6*There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7*This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8*He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9*That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.[b]
10*He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11*He came to His own,[c] and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12*But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13*who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Becomes Flesh
14*And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
******************
Thoughts and opinions?
One of the cardinal doctrines of Christianity is that Jesus is God incarnate and the Bible is quite clear that Jesus is God. Not only John 1:1, but passages such as Philippians 2:5-8 and Hebrews 1:9-12 state that fact. Jesus Himself spoke of His deity in John 8:58 when He said, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'' He didn't say ''I was,'', but ''I am'' which goes back to Old Testament passages such as Isaiah 41:4; 43:10, 13; 44:6 which are 'I am' statements of God. In His high priestly prayer Jesus stated that He was with the Father and shared His glory before the world was (John 17:5).
Jesus is God incarnate. Ever since the incarnation Jesus is in what theologically is called the hypostatic union which means that in the person of Jesus are two natures. His divine nature as God, and His human nature. The attributes of each nature do not bleed over into the other nature. While the two natures of Christ are united in one person, they are separate. This means that Jesus is not part God and part man, but is fully God and fully human.
Last edited by Michael Way; 09-04-2017 at 09:17 PM..
There are two lines of thought on that issue, one of which has become dogma for almost all of institurional Christianity, IMO because it is more readily used in a religion built around the person of Jesus rather than the faith indicated in the message itself. That perception is that Jesus was specially formed to contain "The Word" from a supernatural conception. It is the linchpin in a theology that requires a "perfect sacrifice" to satisfy the "justice" of God.
The other (and earlier) line of thought which has only traces remaining in the NT Is that "Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man" to the point that He embodied "The Word" and became the son of God when the message was ready to be presented., "This day have I begotten thee," which was removed from the Psalm citation in the Gospels, but shows up in Hebrews. Somebody asked why Jesus was 30 years old when He started His ministry and that provides an answer. On the other hand, would the people have recognized Him as "teacher" at a younger age?
My personal perception is adoptionist.
Last edited by nateswift; 09-04-2017 at 09:06 PM..
There are two lines of thought on that issue, one of which has become dogma for almost all of institurional Christianity, IMO because it is more readily used in a religion built around the person of Jesus rather than the faith indicated in the message itself. That perception is that Jesus was specially formed to contain "The Word" from a supernatural conception. It is the linchpin in a theology that requires a "perfect sacrifice" to satisfy the "justice" of God.
The other (and earlier) line of thought which has only traces remaining in the NT Is that Jesus grew in knowledge and spirit to the point that He embodied "The Word" and became the sone of God when the message came, "This day have I begotten thee," which was removed from the Psalm citation in the Gospels, but shows up in Hebrews. Somebody asked why Jesus was 30 years old when He started His ministry and that provides an answer. On the other hand, would the people have recognized Him as "teacher" at a younger age?
My personal perception is adoptionist.
Adoptionism is a heresy that maintains that Jesus was a human who became divine by adoption either at His baptism or at His resurrection. Adoptionism denies the preexistence of Jesus which is so clearly stated in the New Testament. As I noted, in His high priestly prayer, Jesus stated that He was with the Father and shared His glory before the world was. In other words, in eternity past (John 17:5). Adoptionism also disregards the fact that Jesus is clearly stated to have created the heavens and the earth. John 1:3, Col. 1:16, and Hebrews 1:10-11.
John, Paul, the writer of Hebrews, and Jesus Himself all stated the preexistence of Jesus which therefore refutes the adoptionistic view. The Word became flesh. Flesh did not become God.
Adoptionism is a heresy that maintains that Jesus was a human who became divine by adoption either at His baptism or at His resurrection. Adoptionism denies the preexistence of Jesus which is so clearly stated in the New Testament. As I noted, in His high priestly prayer, Jesus stated that He was with the Father and shared His glory before the world was. In other words, in eternity past (John 17:5). Adoptionism also disregards the fact that Jesus is clearly stated to have created the heavens and the earth. John 1:3, Col. 1:16, and Hebrews 1:10-11.
John, Paul, the writer of Hebrews, and Jesus Himself all stated the preexistence of Jesus which therefore refutes the adoptionistic view. The Word became flesh. Flesh did not become God.
Adoptionism denies the pre-existence of Jesus, but NOT the pre-existence of the Christ who IS "the Word" spoken of by John. and yes, it has been called "heresy" by most of institutional Christianity which seems to be more concerned with their religion than with the message Jesus brought. Jesus embodied the Christ.
Adoptionism denies the pre-existence of Jesus, but NOT the pre-existence of the Christ who IS "the Word" spoken of by John. and yes, it has been called "heresy" by most of institutional Christianity which seems to be more concerned with their religion than with the message Jesus brought. Jesus embodied the Christ.
The word 'Christ' or 'Messiah' simply means anointed one. Jesus is the Christ. 'Christ' is not something that came upon the man Jesus at some point during His life. 'Jesus' is the human name of the second Person of the Trinity.
Paul said that Christ Jesus existed in the form of God an that He became a man (Phil. 2:5-8).
Jesus Himself said that He existed before the world was. Again as stated in John 17:5.
Again, adoptionism is a heresy which claims that deity came upon the man Jesus. This is flatly refuted by the scriptures, including statements made by Jesus Himself. John 8:58, 17:5.
Addendum: It is to be noted that Luke 2:11 states that Jesus was born Christ the Lord according to the angel that appeared to the shepherds in the field.
Luke 2:11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
And it had been revealed to Simeon by the Holy Spirit that he would not die until he had seen the Lord's Christ. This was fulfilled when he saw the baby Jesus who was Christ at His birth (Luke 2:26-32).
Jesus didn't become the Christ at His baptism or at His resurrection as adoptionism maintains. He was Christ at His birth as stated in Luke 2:11 and 2:26.
Last edited by Michael Way; 09-04-2017 at 10:27 PM..
There are two lines of thought on that issue, one of which has become dogma for almost all of institurional Christianity, IMO because it is more readily used in a religion built around the person of Jesus rather than the faith indicated in the message itself. That perception is that Jesus was specially formed to contain "The Word" from a supernatural conception. It is the linchpin in a theology that requires a "perfect sacrifice" to satisfy the "justice" of God.
The other (and earlier) line of thought which has only traces remaining in the NT Is that "Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man" to the point that He embodied "The Word" and became the son of God when the message was ready to be presented., "This day have I begotten thee," which was removed from the Psalm citation in the Gospels, but shows up in Hebrews. Somebody asked why Jesus was 30 years old when He started His ministry and that provides an answer. On the other hand, would the people have recognized Him as "teacher" at a younger age?
The seventh from Adam was adopted by God in the beginning...God never said that he would not die, but new wine must be put into a new wine skin. God took this Son of Adam, took him out of his earthly garments...the flesh...and brought him into his antecedent inheritance, clothing him in the garments of His Glory...Christ.
"I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8 KJV
The man God chose was sufficient for the task at hand...standing there before God's face in eternity.
Isaac was called to be sacrificed so God would have a judgment so then man could be saved to God , but Isaac did not qualify because he was born from the stock of Adam , who was not of the stock of greatness which the Lord God is , So then the miracle of the virgin birth where Holy Spirit put Jesus in Mary who gave birth as a surrogate , as Jesus was not the descendant of Adam , but of the royal greatness of God ...... See Jesus was born by supernatural miracle of God and can not be explained by the natural , like God in two places is not natural , but supernatural
every human is the universe in flesh form. There is not one thing we are doing that is not the universe doing it.
The composition fallacy angle is a poor attempt to change science in order to maintain a statement of belief. Theists change science to meet their needs and some wacky atheist do it too. The volume of "humanness" can be discussed, for about 10 seconds.
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This is the truth!
