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It means exactly what Paul said. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law.
Despite the delusions of the Pharisees and the Judaizer "Christians" who frequent this board the law cannot bring about righteousness. Cutting off your limbs, giving everything, etc. just show the futility of trying to keep the old covenant. Even if you did those things, and most don't, you still won't make it . As Mystic correctly stated, he who loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law.
I mean, it is almost the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. You would think we could learn from the past.
Simul Justus et Peccator Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift
Wrong. I am trying to get people to actually focus on being considerate of others by taking the focus OFF obedience. When your focus is on obedience, that is a self-centered state of mind focused on gaining approval from God for doing what you think He wants you to do. The focus is NOT on the love of God and each other which is what God ACTUALLY wants from us.
Thats not my understanding of obedience.
Loving God with all my heart, and my neighbors as myself.
If i hear and understand. The obedience is actually a part of the actions i take toward my neighbors.
You shall commit no injustice in judgment; you shall not favor a poor person or respect a great man; you shall judge your fellow with righteousness.
You shall not go around as a gossipmonger amidst your people. You shall not stand by [the shedding of] your fellow's blood. I am the Lord.
You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your fellow, but you shall not bear a sin on his account.
Leviticus 19:18
'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.
It means exactly what Paul said. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law.
Despite the delusions of the Pharisees and the Judaizer "Christians" who frequent this board the law cannot bring about righteousness. Cutting off your limbs, giving everything, etc. just show the futility of trying to keep the old covenant. Even if you did those things, and most don't, you still won't make it . As Mystic correctly stated, he who loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law.
I mean, it is almost the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. You would think we could learn from the past.
Simul Justus et Peccator Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift
You cannot hate (murder) a person (your neighbor), and call yourself a Christian.
Wrong. I am trying to get people to actually focus on being considerate of others by taking the focus OFF obedience. When your focus is on obedience, that is a self-centered state of mind focused on gaining approval from God for doing what you think He wants you to do. The focus is NOT on the love of God and each other which is what God ACTUALLY wants from us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled
Thats not my understanding of obedience.
Loving God with all my heart, and my neighbors as myself.
If i hear and understand. The obedience is actually a part of the actions i take toward my neighbors.
You shall commit no injustice in judgment; you shall not favor a poor person or respect a great man; you shall judge your fellow with righteousness.
You shall not go around as a gossipmonger amidst your people. You shall not stand by [the shedding of] your fellow's blood. I am the Lord.
You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your fellow, but you shall not bear a sin on his account.
Leviticus 19:18
'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.
Obedience is a state of mind that is focused on the motive of pleasing (or not offending) the Source of the commands. That is a very different state of mind from one that is focused on the motive of love for all as the way to express love for the Source of the commands. "Whatsoever you do to these the least of my creatures you do to me."
Obedience is a state of mind that is focused on the motive of pleasing (or not offending) the Source of the commands. That is a very different state of mind from one that is focused on the motive of love for all as the way to express love for the Source of the commands. "Whatsoever you do to these the least of my creatures you do to me."
Love,?
Faith without works.
You are constantly just clinging to a single word. As if it were just a state of mind as you so describe.
For out of the heart proceeds the wells of gifts from the Holy Spirit. And the mind is overwhelmed of such.
Like cataracts flowing through and through cleansing all that the mind may have once tried to accomplish in its own power.
What is clearly seen, should not even be a discussion between you and i. This should already have been established with your being.
\ a high priest who can fully be sympathetic and empathetic with our situation. “For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin” (Hebrews 4:15).
police your own first.
I do not have to sacrifice to the point of self destruction. "self" is not literal, things gnaw at a man's gut worse than death.
Obedience is a state of mind that is focused on the motive of pleasing (or not offending) the Source of the commands. That is a very different state of mind from one that is focused on the motive of love for all as the way to express love for the Source of the commands. "Whatsoever you do to these the least of my creatures you do to me."
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled
Love,?Faith without works.
You are constantly just clinging to a single word. As if it were just a state of mind as you so describe.
For out of the heart proceeds the wells of gifts from the Holy Spirit. And the mind is overwhelmed of such.
Like cataracts flowing through and through cleansing all that the mind may have once tried to accomplish in its own power.
What is clearly seen, should not even be a discussion between you and i. This should already have been established with your being.
Yet you hear the word obey, and you cringe
1Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2“Honoryourfatherandmother”(whichisthe firstcommandmentwitha promise), 3“that it may go well with you and that you may be long-lived on the earth.”
What more could i say to you mystic.
Have you not accepted Yeshua as your Lord and savior. https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-c...hority-of-god/ \ a high priest who can fully be sympathetic and empathetic with our situation. “For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin” (Hebrews 4:15).
Jesus was about as clear as He could be that we are NOT to place ANYONE in authority over us. No one is first and no one has more authority than anyone else. How this was translated into hierarchies, human -appointed prophets or apostles, and self-designated priests, etc. is a tribute to the perversity of humankind. Our relationship with God is NOT about authority or obedience, it is ALL about Agape love, period.
Jesus was about as clear as He could be that we are NOT to place ANYONE in authority over us. No one is first and no one has more authority than anyone else. How this was translated into hierarchies, human -appointed prophets or apostles, and self-designated priests, etc. is a tribute to the perversity of humankind. Our relationship with God is NOT about authority or obedience, it is ALL about Agape love, period.
I know.
Yet you are talking of judgement.
There are two estates to judge. And one witnesses true and equal between both.
And with a fine linen.
The truth girds the courageouse.
What power other than the royal law could you or i be a voice.
If not for the Word given in Heavenly Manna.
Such a gift is resticted with judges these days. With bribes,extortion, and a plateau of corruption the fallen ones pervert justice.
And so. Here in an internet forum the wages of war will be dealt to those who speak against the Most High.
Blessings to a man who ask with fortitude.
Blessings to those who keep fear for those who have none.
Blessings always in what should be a house full of joy
Jesus was about as clear as He could be that we are NOT to place ANYONE in authority over us. No one is first and no one has more authority than anyone else. How this was translated into hierarchies, human -appointed prophets or apostles, and self-designated priests, etc. is a tribute to the perversity of humankind. Our relationship with God is NOT about authority or obedience, it is ALL about Agape love, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled
I know.
Yet you are talking of judgement.
There are two estates to judge. And one witnesses true and equal between both.
And with a fine linen.
The truth girds the courageouse.
What power other than the royal law could you or i be a voice.
If not for the Word given in Heavenly Manna.
Such a gift is resticted with judges these days. With bribes,extortion, and a plateau of corruption the fallen ones pervert justice.
And so. Here in an internet forum the wages of war will be dealt to those who speak against the Most High.
Blessings to a man who ask with fortitude.
Blessings to those who keep fear for those who have none.
Blessings always in what should be a house full of joy
No, pinacled, you and Rbbi are talking about judgment. I only acknowledge consequences because we will all reap EXACTLY what we sow. That is NOT judgment or punishment, but the only true justice. Nevertheless, we are saved as if by fire because of what Jesus did.
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. As Mystic correctly stated, he who loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law.
