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I notice you don't deny that these are doctrines of men, Finn, you just make wild accusations about mine.
The foundation of my faith is a belief in the nature of the Spirit which (so far to me) is best described in the Sermon on the Mount, Galatians 5 and 1 Cor 13. Anyone who ever encountered that Spirit will. How's that for "biblical?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Jesus and Paul had so much more to say and the writers all claimed to be Spirit-led.
Are you saying we should not be led by the Spirit, as the book (written by men) supersedes?
Or, should we by and through the Spirit gain a better understanding of what was written...
He lifted me out of the slimy pit, out of the mud and mire of men.
And set my feet on a rock, giving me a firm place to stand.
Or, are you utterly swept away by the sudden terror of Eternal Torment and destruction?
Jesus and Paul had so much more to say and the writers all claimed to be Spirit-led.
You are stuck in the idea that one recorded expression that shows the qualities of the Spirit must mean that ALL expressions attributed to the author of the confirmed expression MUST also be true. It does not follow. This is because you are still stuck in that doctrine of men I mentioned that the Bible is the authority. .....it isn't.
I'd be worried if it is. Abraham was convinced not only by what God spoke to him but what God had him look at. God gave Abe the stars and the sand to look at and said count those bleeders if you can , so shall your children be . A promise with something to look at . The scriptures gave us something to look to as well....... Jesus Christ.......... He is the perfect protype of what we all are(God doesn't mess around when he creates something).
And don't forget you lovely bible lovers that Abe is the Father of Faith, so arguing your bible fundamentalist beliefs against him, be warned old Abe will whip your asses. Yes Abe is still around.
I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
Fancy that.
AS A KID IT WAS MY VERY INDEPTH VIVID DREAMS.. DREAMS I COULD NOT EXPLAIN THEN AND BARELY NOW AFTER TRYING TO EXPLAIN THEM for 50 YEARS now .. MUCH LESS DID THEY COME FROM MY IMAGINATION OR MY OWN MIND THEY ARE SO????????. SO I KNEW HE WAS REAL BY MY DREAMS.
BUT AS I GOT OLDER in his word I GET TO KNOW HIM . thus grounds for an on going conversation and thus I have had a lifelong on going conversation with THEM . in his word AND about his word, And about life and ABOUT
science and TRUE history and dang JUST everything FREINDS CAN TALK ABOUT .. and I mean everything..!!!
now I can say I really do know Him and the Father AND THE SPIRIT probably WELL PRETTY well!! .. in that if I knew for certain the same things about ANY other people in my life , then I would AND DO consider them all my best friends..( not that Father God considers me his best friend!) Now Jesus sure might consider me one of his best friends but I doubt the Father does. but I KNOW the Father loves me like a daughter.. I just think he has way lots of more friends from history and such, MAYBE .
But I consider the 3 of them MY BFF's! WHAT they consider me is their business.!
AND LIKE A CHILD IN A ROOM OF ADULTS I CAN KIND OF CARRY ON IN THE CONVERSATION ALMOST! SORT OF! if it has to do with the Bible.... or actually maybe I can almost understand them!
you know I was one of those kids that when the adults would speak about God and like have in bible studies and discuss the word almost every night .. I would be sitting in the corner listening instead of being bored at church or out playing like most kids .( which I love to playing now and did as a kid)... but I love God and his word more...
the mystery of it was such a challenge to my mind.. . because I wanted to know ! to JUST know I COULD FIND GOD IN HIS WORDS. like his words matched my dreams so I knew he was in there someplace.... AND I FOUND THEM !!
but I have other Bff's too like my kids and some of their friends are MY FRIENDS and some of my friends and church/body members going back ages and ages and I love them ALL so much.. ..! all THOSE that I know personal stuff about them and love it all, THE GOOD, AND BAD, THE SILLY, AND THE GOOFY AND THE
CRAZY STUFF.. I LOVE THEM ALL.
I got to know God/ Jesus and the spirit by my dreams first as a child and then His word. and hours and hours and eons of prayer and tears and praise and worship time and LOTA study and with it a lifelong conversation which followS those things and those kinds of emotional connections to not only my personal life AND HISTORY but to some of his.
Its your own medicine. You insist on continuing with the "let me tell you what you believe" lines, so I guess you don't mind others telling you the same.
As for "doctrines of men": feel free to call it anything you want. To me they are teachings of Jesus Christ.
First you call it "doctrines of men", and then you say you believe it......
Precisely what I said you believe. Interesting, huh? Now would you like to address the political history and rationale for the doctrine I noted? It IS an interpretation of passages of scripture and NOT something stated or recorded as stated by Christ.
What exactly are you talking about that I am supposed to have called "doctrines of men" and stated that I believed? Citing particular passages is not the same as formulating doctrines from them. Keep your terms straight if you can, Finn. I believe that the expressions cited are compatible with the nature of the Spirit I know.
You are stuck in the idea that one recorded expression that shows the qualities of the Spirit must mean that ALL expressions attributed to the author of the confirmed expression MUST also be true. It does not follow. This is because you are still stuck in that doctrine of men I mentioned that the Bible is the authority. .....it isn't.
According to Jesus, the prophets, the apostles and the writers, it is. Why should I believe some guy on the internet?
According to Jesus, the prophets, the apostles and the writers, it is. Why should I believe some guy on the internet?
NOwhere are Jesus, the prophets OR the apostles recorded as stating so. It is a politically motivated doctrine or conclusion reached, claiming that things they have said indicate that the Bible is authority. They don't.
According to the scriptures, believing certain things doesn't prove anything about a person.
You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. James 2:9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Its James 2:18-19 and it does not go quite the way you quote it.
"But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."
Demons KNOW God exists, and they hate Him.
I suppose you have heard of paraphrasing? And shuddering relates to fear, not hate.
Precisely what I said you believe. Interesting, huh?
No, it is not what you said.
However, if you are now saying my faith is based on teachings of Jesus Christ, then that's cool.
Well, you seem to dismiss the teachings of Christ as recorded in the Bible as "doctrines of men", and then you quote it and say your faith is founded on it.
I suppose you have heard of paraphrasing? And shuddering relates to fear, not hate.
If you are referencing a Bible verse, might as well NOT re-word it.
Why do they fear Him?
They rebelled because they loved God? No, they hated Him, and they hate people too.
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