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I have read the great responses to my post and have watched the great Youtube movie but when we look at what the Bible actually says in context - we find that the " Sons Of God " - do not have a single thing to with Angels.
But - There is not even a mentioning of a single Angel anywhere in the first 16 chapters of the Bible - until 10 whole, entire chapters later - after the giants of Gen 6 - About 400 - 500 years after this event - in Gen_16:7 .... The first Angel ever mentioned is first mentioned - Appearing to Hagar.
If " THE SONS OF GOD “ - must be labeled as exactly what they are " AS either - ANGELS or as listed in the manuscripts as Seth's seed " it completely falls or falls 400 - 500 years out of any credibility and validity. The Angel visiting, even Hagar was not there to mate and have intercourse with her. Even here, 500 years after the very first giants were mentioned on earth. The Angels did not even mate or have sexual relations with Sarah or Abraham. - -But they did travel onward - walking to Sodom and Gomorrah, after visiting with Abraham and Sarah - which is the reason why that Trinitarians attempt to tie this doctrine of angels mating with women - to the passages in Jud 1:6 - 7 - also in Peter --- where it says that the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - :7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
The Passage in Jud 1:7 where it is saying = Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication ...... The “ the cities about them in like manner “ are receiving judgment - not the fallen angels in the previous verse. The Angels mentioned in the previous verse - they are not said to be SEXUALLY IMMORAL - IN LIKE MANNER - but it is the “ cities about / AROUND - Sodom and Gomorrah - them, in like manner “ are sexually immoral.
This is the way much of the Bible is written - it mentions the subject " of Evil fallen Angels " in Jud 1:6 - and then goes on to describe the events of Sodom and Gomorrah - EXACTLY - the location where God's holy angels happened to visit Lot. - This is called context, and the first mentioning of any Angels executing judgment on man. Much of the Bible is written this way as it it mentions events and then moves on to the next verse detailing more information about the previous accounts.
in Jud 1:6 - 7 - also in Peter - the Bible is comparing the fallen angels - to the Godly angels who are serving God's will.
Just as the line of Seth through Adam is mentioned right before the Sons of God are mentioned - in just the previous few verses in - Gen 5:1 - the Seed of Adam through Seth are all listed - and the Bible proceeds to list - the long list - calling them all in the genealogy listed - and then creates the first TITLE in the Bible as- " The Sons Of God " and proceeds throughout the rest of the body of the Bible - defining Godly HUMANS such as Seth and His seed who called on God and served God - only as the " The Sons Of God " - 90 times in the Bible. There is not even a mention of any angels anywhere in the Bible - until about 500 years after this.
The idea of humans ( The Sons Of God ) - presenting themselves before the Lord is not a seclusive concept or idea that is only applied solely to the Sons of God in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1.
The word { PRESENT } is the Hebrew word _ Yâtsab- H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab - yaw-tsab' -
Meaning = To place (any thing, so as to stay); To STAND, To station, To OFFER, To continue: - To present selves, To stand fast / forth, Standing, still, { Stand up ). - - This Same exact Hebrew word is used " 48 " TOTAL times in the Old Testament - in the same exact way, ALWAYS - with the same EXACT meaning -
And of these " 48 " total times it always - EVERY SINGLE LAST TIME - Means { TO STAND ) and " 9 " times total we find where the Trinitarian Translated it as the word " PRESENTED " - As we here that many, many " OTHER SERVANTS OF GOD " are PRESENTING THEMSELVES BEFORE THE LORD -- while here on earth
1Sa 10:19 Now ( israel ) - therefore { Present = Yâtsab - H3320 }- yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.
Jos 24:1 And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem.... and they { Presented = Yâtsab - H3320 }- themselves before God.
Job 1:6 The sons of God came { presenting = Yâtsab - H3320 } themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. - - Job 2:1 The sons of God came and presented themselves before the LORD.
We see other applications of how this same exact word is used here in - Jer 46:14 Declare ye in Egypt, and publish it - say you ( Stand - H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab ) and prepare for the sword shall devour round about you.
2Ch 20:6 O LORD - in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to - ( Present / Stand - H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab ) to you ?
1Sa 12:7 Now therefore ( Stand - H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab ) that I may reason with you before the LORD
Exo 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, ( Stand - H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab ) and see the salvation of the LORD.
This Hebrew word - ( Yâtsab- H3320 - יָצַב ) Means = { TO STAND/ PRESENT ) - and it is not always a literal meaning - as to literally be standing in a physical sense. IT ALSO MEANS TO MENTALLY AND SPIRITUALLY STAND. The Bible uses this word as a mental or spiritual application - as to say - STAND STRONG - OR STAND STILL and hear or sense or serve God.
HUMANS - STANDING OR PRESENTING THEMSELVES - before The Lord, has not a single thing to do with literally floating up to heaven and literally standing before the Lord in heaven.
Humans are doing this on earth - in the Bible- The Servants Of God - ( THE JEWS ) Moses, Prophets, Priests and all of Israel are PRESENTING THEMSELVES BEFORE THE LORD. - on earth. -
There is yet another Hebrew word that also means to " STAND " or to " PRESENT " yourself. - And this Hebrew word means exactly the same thing - but is a different word. -
H5975 - עָמַד - ‛âmad -aw-mad' - Meaning = ( TO BE PRESENT . ) To stand / continue / endure, To raise up, To set (forth, To stand by, To stand fast, firm. - This word has this same exact meaning and also used in the Trinitarian Translation as also the word - Meaning = ( PRESENT / PRESENTED ) - As we see in these verses -
Lev 9:5 And they brought the sacrifice and all the congregation drew near and { Presented / stood it - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD.
Lev 14:11 The priest shall { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } the man and these things before the LORD, at the door of the tabernacle....
Lev 16:7 The two goats, shall be { Presented / stood - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Num 5:16 And the priest shall bring her near, and { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } her before the LORD:
Deu 4:10 You Israel were { Present / standing - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD thy God in Horeb
Lev 14:11 And the priest shall { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } the man that is to be made clean.
Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } them before the LORD.
Lev 27:8 But if he be poorer than thy estimation, then he shall { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } himself before the priest.
Num 3:6 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } them before Aaron the priest,
Deu 5:5 I ( Moses ) { Present / stood - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } between the LORD and You.
Deu 10:8 The tribe of Levi carried the ark, to { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD.
Deu 18:7 The Levites - { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } there before the LORD.
Deu 19:17 Men in controversy ... shall { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD, before the priests and the judges.
Deu 29:10 Captains of tribes, elders and officers and all men of Israel - { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD your God.
1Sa 6:20 Who is able to { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before this holy LORD God? - ( in war )1Ki 18:15 Elijah said - I am { Presented / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the Lord.
1Ki 19:11 Go forth, and am { Presented / standing - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD, breaking in pieces the rocks before the LORD.
2Ki 5:16 Naman the prophet said - I am { Present / standing - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the Lord.
Ezr 9:15 Because of our trespasses: we cannot { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before The Lord.
Please honestly realize - that in the Bible, - the fact that Cain is the blood son of Adam does not make him a Son Of God - any more than it made the Hebrew Priests, Scribes and Pharisees in the Holy Temple colluding and diddling with King Herod - anything more, than the serpents / snakes - that Yahoshua labeled them as. Yahoshua said that they were - FROM their FATHER - The Devil. The devil was their Father. - not God. Cain and his seed were just as much the Sons of The devil - just as the Pharisees were the Sons of their The devil - Yahoshus demanded that " YOU ARE FROM YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL " - and the lusts of your father ye will do. ...... Satan is a liar, and the father of lies. _ Joh 8:44.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is your Father ? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. :13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is BORN FROM God.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's CHILD, ye would do the works of Abraham. ... :41 Ye do the deeds of your FATHER { SATAN ) . Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. :42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
How would Genesis 6:1-2 be any different than the continual message of the entire Bible. From the beginning of time ? - - The IDEA and concept of " Those created by God " are all - the sons and daughters of God, Please explain - where does this have anything to do whatsoever - as simply being born from Adam or Abraham.
I am reading from the Bible. And do we not find that, only those who are obedient to God are the Sons of God. Cain and his wicked seed are not the sons of The God ... ? - - 1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was " FROM " - exiting out of / from - that wicked one, and slew his brother.
Have you ever noticed that - Many Christians are happy to believe and DEMAND the fable that Angels in human bodies - created giants - but yet they recoil and nearly gag in theological disgust in a total dismissal, to the notion that Satan could have entered the serpent and created his very own son - as Cain... Is this not the most hypo – criticish and senseless faith mindset that you have ever encountered ?
And there is there no concern or importance that the expectation and prospect would need to hold up to the assumption and validation to the idea that - the Book should obviously clearly say that these sons of God were literal " HUMANS. " ? - Since the passage does not mention anything whatsoever about " Angels " But it does mention the entire generations of a generational seed " of Adam through Seth " - in just the previous few verses in - Gen 5:1 - This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; this is the subject - just before the giants are mentioned - not angels. - But - There is not even a single mentioning of a single Angel anywhere in the first 16 chapters of the Bible - until 10 whole, entire chapters later - after the giants of Gen 6 - About 400 - 500 years after this event - in Gen_16:7 .... The first Angel ever mentioned is first mentioned - Appearing to Hagar. - - Especially in light of the fact that Adam was described and mentioned in Luk_3:38 " as - Adam being the one - who it was - The Son Of God. - - Luk_3:38 Adam, which was the son of God. - Humans are the Sons and Daughters Of God. - - Why would it matter who the Sons of God are - since the book does not say anywhere ( LITERALLY ) that they were angels - one could just as easily assume that the Sons of God are light beams protruding from the sun or morning stars and fertilizing the eggs of women . Do I need to beg, that one will provide a single verse that says that a single angel anywhere is considered " a son of God "
Especially, in total contradiction of Heb_1:5 - where God is commanding that we are to understand and realize that God does not recognize or know of any single one of the Angels, at any time, to whom He has said - Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? and - TO NON OF THE ANGELS - have I ever said that - I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son ? -
And here at the end The Lord - Yahoshua / Jesus Christ “ HIMSELF “ declares that Rev_21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. – This is one of many other verses that completely destroy the entire idea of a Trinity. - And Angels are not even mentioned in Rev_21: but only one single time - and this is 10 whole entire verses later. And in Rev 21:17 the angel here is taking measurements and calculating the cubits of a wall and is too busy to be having sex with anyone.
Every single one of these “ 35 verses “ - are using the same exact Hebrew words - SONS - האלהים - and - GOD בני
These words “ האלהים - - בני “ are the same exact two Hebrew word with the same exact Hebrew vowel endings that we see ( as Sons of God ) in - Gen_6:2 - and 6:4 - and - Job_1:6 - and 2:1 .
“ THEY ARE THE SAME EXACT WORDS “ - I could take the time and space and type every single one of them out – but to save time, I refrain - should you not have already looked it up by now ?
בני bên - אלהים 'ĕlôhı̂ym
SONS and GOD – bên - 'ĕlôhı̂ym - in the same verse.
Verses in black,22 times as Sons - Verses in red, 13 time as Children. -
Also, there is the term called ‘ Son and people of The Lord “ / Yawhea - “ בני יהוה “ found here in
2Sa 1:12 And they mourned, and wept, and fasted ... for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD.
Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father..... if then I be a father, where is mine honour.
Mal 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD .....; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son.
The Bible fully Commands that the Servants and “ SONS and DAUGHTERS of God “ are not to be intermarrying with men and women who are not following God.
2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
:18 I will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Gen 24:3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, God of heaven, and earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
Gen_24:37 My master made me swear, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife to my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, in whose land I dwell:
1Ki 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, ...... Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; :2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you.
Neh 13:23 Certain Jews had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab: :25 And I.....made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.
Neh 13:26 Solomon king of Israel sinned by - transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?
Gen26:34, 35 When Eʹsau two wifes of the Hitʹtite 35 They were a source of great grief to Isaac and Re•bekʹah.
Gen 28:6 Jacob commanded Esau to not take him a wife from the daughters of Canaan.
Gen 27:46 And Rebekah said to Isaac... if Jacob take a wife of the daughters of Heth, ... what good shall my life do me?
Gen 24:4 But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife. Verse 5 - says that Abraham said that Isaac could not find a wife among his family - he is not even to come back home to Canaan.
Jdg 14:3 The father and mother asked Samson - Is there never a woman among the daughters of thy brethren, or my people, that thou goest to take a wife of the uncircumcised Philistines?
Jer_16:2 Thou shalt not take thee a wife, neither shalt thou have sons or daughters in this place.
Gen 24:7 The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.
Ezr 2:61 Certain priests took a wife of the daughters of the Gileadites :62 and they were, as polluted, and put out from the priesthood.
Deu 7:1 The LORD said “ I shall bring thee into the land of the Hittites, Girga****es, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and the Jebusites, :3 You shall not make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
Exo 34:16 Do not take daughters unto thy sons - with the inhabitants of the land
Ezr 10:2 We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land :3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them.
Mal 2:11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, an abomination is committed in Israel and Jerusalem; by marrying the daughter of a strange god. 12 The LORD will cut off the man that doeth.
The fact that Cain is the blood son of Adam does not make him a Son Of God - any more than it made the Hebrew Priests, Scribes and Pharisees in the Holy Temple colluding and diddling with King Herod - anything more, than the serpents / snakes - that Yahoshua labeled them as. Yahoshua said that they were - FROM their FATHER - The Devil. The devil was their Father. - not God. Cain and his seed were just as much the Sons of The devil - just as the Pharisees were the Sons of their The devil - Yahoshus demanded that " YOU ARE FROM YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL " - and the lusts of your father ye will do. ...... Satan is a liar, and the father of lies. _ Joh 8:44.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is your Father ? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is BORN FROM God.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's CHILD, ye would do the works of Abraham. ... :41 Ye do the deeds ofyour FATHER { SATAN ) . Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. :42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
How would Genesis 6:1-2 be any different than the continual message of the entire Bible. From the beginning of time ? - - The IDEA and concept of " Those created by God " are all - the sons and daughters of God, Please explain - where does this have anything to do whatsoever - as simply being born from Adam or Abraham. - - Do we not find that, only those who are obedient to God are the Sons of God. Cain and his wicked seed are not the sons of The God ... ? - - 1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was " FROM " - eXiting out of / from - that wicked one, and slew his brother.
This Greek word ( Saying that Cain was " FROM THE WICKED ONE " - from is the Greek word - G1537 - ἐκ, ἐξ - ek - ex = Meaning = Denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; after, among, by (the means of), (-out of - FROM ). - Cain was literally just as much called - the son of Satan - ( FROM THE WICKED ONE ) - just as much as Yahoshua had called the Priests the " SONS OF THE DEVIL " and not the sons of God.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. :10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God..... :10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: - whosoever doeth not righteousness is not FROM God. - The God of the Bible - God is not a father to people like Cain – nor their seed – which is the seed of The Devil, their Father.
Also, my friends, - Have you ever noticed that - Many Christians are happy to believe and DEMAND the fable that Angels in human bodies - created giants - but yet they recoil and nearly gag in theological disgust in a total dismissal, to the notion that Satan could have entered the serpent and created his very own son - as Cain... Is this not the most hypo – criticish and senseless faith, mindset that you have ever encountered ?
Last edited by tripplelogicality; 02-02-2019 at 11:29 AM..
I have read the great responses to my post and have watched the great Youtube movie but when we look at what the Bible actually says in context - we find that the " Sons Of God " - do not have a single thing to with Angels.
But - There is not even a mentioning of a single Angel anywhere in the first 16 chapters of the Bible - until 10 whole, entire chapters later - after the giants of Gen 6 - About 400 - 500 years after this event - in Gen_16:7 .... The first Angel ever mentioned is first mentioned - Appearing to Hagar.
If " THE SONS OF GOD “ - must be labeled as exactly what they are " AS either - ANGELS or as listed in the manuscripts as Seth's seed " it completely falls or falls 400 - 500 years out of any credibility and validity. The Angel visiting, even Hagar was not there to mate and have intercourse with her. Even here, 500 years after the very first giants were mentioned on earth. The Angels did not even mate or have sexual relations with Sarah or Abraham. - -But they did travel onward - walking to Sodom and Gomorrah, after visiting with Abraham and Sarah - which is the reason why that Trinitarians attempt to tie this doctrine of angels mating with women - to the passages in Jud 1:6 - 7 - also in Peter --- where it says that the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - :7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
The Passage in Jud 1:7 where it is saying = Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication ...... The “ the cities about them in like manner “ are receiving judgment - not the fallen angels in the previous verse. The Angels mentioned in the previous verse - they are not said to be SEXUALLY IMMORAL - IN LIKE MANNER - but it is the “ cities about / AROUND - Sodom and Gomorrah - them, in like manner “ are sexually immoral.
This is the way much of the Bible is written - it mentions the subject " of Evil fallen Angels " in Jud 1:6 - and then goes on to describe the events of Sodom and Gomorrah - EXACTLY - the location where God's holy angels happened to visit Lot. - This is called context, and the first mentioning of any Angels executing judgment on man. Much of the Bible is written this way as it it mentions events and then moves on to the next verse detailing more information about the previous accounts.
in Jud 1:6 - 7 - also in Peter - the Bible is comparing the fallen angels - to the Godly angels who are serving God's will.
Just as the line of Seth through Adam is mentioned right before the Sons of God are mentioned - in just the previous few verses in - Gen 5:1 - the Seed of Adam through Seth are all listed - and the Bible proceeds to list - the long list - calling them all in the genealogy listed - and then creates the first TITLE in the Bible as- " The Sons Of God " and proceeds throughout the rest of the body of the Bible - defining Godly HUMANS such as Seth and His seed who called on God and served God - only as the " The Sons Of God " - 90 times in the Bible. There is not even a mention of any angels anywhere in the Bible - until about 500 years after this.
The idea of humans ( The Sons Of God ) - presenting themselves before the Lord is not a seclusive concept or idea that is only applied solely to the Sons of God in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1.
The word { PRESENT } is the Hebrew word _ Yâtsab- H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab - yaw-tsab' -
Meaning = To place (any thing, so as to stay); To STAND, To station, To OFFER, To continue: - To present selves, To stand fast / forth, Standing, still, { Stand up ). - - This Same exact Hebrew word is used " 48 " TOTAL times in the Old Testament - in the same exact way, ALWAYS - with the same EXACT meaning -
And of these " 48 " total times it always - EVERY SINGLE LAST TIME - Means { TO STAND ) and " 9 " times total we find where the Trinitarian Translated it as the word " PRESENTED " - As we here that many, many " OTHER SERVANTS OF GOD " are PRESENTING THEMSELVES BEFORE THE LORD -- while here on earth
1Sa 10:19 Now ( israel ) - therefore { Present = Yâtsab - H3320 }- yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.
Jos 24:1 And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem.... and they { Presented = Yâtsab - H3320 }- themselves before God.
Job 1:6 The sons of God came { presenting = Yâtsab - H3320 } themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. - - Job 2:1 The sons of God came and presented themselves before the LORD.
We see other applications of how this same exact word is used here in - Jer 46:14 Declare ye in Egypt, and publish it - say you ( Stand - H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab ) and prepare for the sword shall devour round about you.
2Ch 20:6 O LORD - in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to - ( Present / Stand - H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab ) to you ?
1Sa 12:7 Now therefore ( Stand - H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab ) that I may reason with you before the LORD
Exo 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, ( Stand - H3320 - יָצַב - yâtsab ) and see the salvation of the LORD.
This Hebrew word - ( Yâtsab- H3320 - יָצַב ) Means = { TO STAND/ PRESENT ) - and it is not always a literal meaning - as to literally be standing in a physical sense. IT ALSO MEANS TO MENTALLY AND SPIRITUALLY STAND. The Bible uses this word as a mental or spiritual application - as to say - STAND STRONG - OR STAND STILL and hear or sense or serve God.
HUMANS - STANDING OR PRESENTING THEMSELVES - before The Lord, has not a single thing to do with literally floating up to heaven and literally standing before the Lord in heaven.
Humans are doing this on earth - in the Bible- The Servants Of God - ( THE JEWS ) Moses, Prophets, Priests and all of Israel are PRESENTING THEMSELVES BEFORE THE LORD. - on earth. -
There is yet another Hebrew word that also means to " STAND " or to " PRESENT " yourself. - And this Hebrew word means exactly the same thing - but is a different word. -
H5975 - עָמַד - ‛âmad -aw-mad' - Meaning = ( TO BE PRESENT . ) To stand / continue / endure, To raise up, To set (forth, To stand by, To stand fast, firm. - This word has this same exact meaning and also used in the Trinitarian Translation as also the word - Meaning = ( PRESENT / PRESENTED ) - As we see in these verses -
Lev 9:5 And they brought the sacrifice and all the congregation drew near and { Presented / stood it - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD.
Lev 14:11 The priest shall { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } the man and these things before the LORD, at the door of the tabernacle....
Lev 16:7 The two goats, shall be { Presented / stood - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Num 5:16 And the priest shall bring her near, and { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } her before the LORD:
Deu 4:10 You Israel were { Present / standing - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD thy God in Horeb
Lev 14:11 And the priest shall { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } the man that is to be made clean.
Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } them before the LORD.
Lev 27:8 But if he be poorer than thy estimation, then he shall { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } himself before the priest.
Num 3:6 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } them before Aaron the priest,
Deu 5:5 I ( Moses ) { Present / stood - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } between the LORD and You.
Deu 10:8 The tribe of Levi carried the ark, to { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD.
Deu 18:7 The Levites - { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } there before the LORD.
Deu 19:17 Men in controversy ... shall { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD, before the priests and the judges.
Deu 29:10 Captains of tribes, elders and officers and all men of Israel - { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD your God.
1Sa 6:20 Who is able to { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before this holy LORD God? - ( in war )1Ki 18:15 Elijah said - I am { Presented / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the Lord.
1Ki 19:11 Go forth, and am { Presented / standing - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the LORD, breaking in pieces the rocks before the LORD.
2Ki 5:16 Naman the prophet said - I am { Present / standing - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before the Lord.
Ezr 9:15 Because of our trespasses: we cannot { Present / stand - ‛âmad - H5975 - עָמַד } before The Lord.
Please honestly realize - that in the Bible, - the fact that Cain is the blood son of Adam does not make him a Son Of God - any more than it made the Hebrew Priests, Scribes and Pharisees in the Holy Temple colluding and diddling with King Herod - anything more, than the serpents / snakes - that Yahoshua labeled them as. Yahoshua said that they were - FROM their FATHER - The Devil. The devil was their Father. - not God. Cain and his seed were just as much the Sons of The devil - just as the Pharisees were the Sons of their The devil - Yahoshus demanded that " YOU ARE FROM YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL " - and the lusts of your father ye will do. ...... Satan is a liar, and the father of lies. _ Joh 8:44.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is your Father ? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. :13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is BORN FROM God.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's CHILD, ye would do the works of Abraham. ... :41 Ye do the deeds of your FATHER { SATAN ) . Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. :42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
How would Genesis 6:1-2 be any different than the continual message of the entire Bible. From the beginning of time ? - - The IDEA and concept of " Those created by God " are all - the sons and daughters of God, Please explain - where does this have anything to do whatsoever - as simply being born from Adam or Abraham.
I am reading from the Bible. And do we not find that, only those who are obedient to God are the Sons of God. Cain and his wicked seed are not the sons of The God ... ? - - 1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was " FROM " - exiting out of / from - that wicked one, and slew his brother.
Have you ever noticed that - Many Christians are happy to believe and DEMAND the fable that Angels in human bodies - created giants - but yet they recoil and nearly gag in theological disgust in a total dismissal, to the notion that Satan could have entered the serpent and created his very own son - as Cain... Is this not the most hypo – criticish and senseless faith mindset that you have ever encountered ?
And there is there no concern or importance that the expectation and prospect would need to hold up to the assumption and validation to the idea that - the Book should obviously clearly say that these sons of God were literal " HUMANS. " ? - Since the passage does not mention anything whatsoever about " Angels " But it does mention the entire generations of a generational seed " of Adam through Seth " - in just the previous few verses in - Gen 5:1 - This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; this is the subject - just before the giants are mentioned - not angels. - But - There is not even a single mentioning of a single Angel anywhere in the first 16 chapters of the Bible - until 10 whole, entire chapters later - after the giants of Gen 6 - About 400 - 500 years after this event - in Gen_16:7 .... The first Angel ever mentioned is first mentioned - Appearing to Hagar. - - Especially in light of the fact that Adam was described and mentioned in Luk_3:38 " as - Adam being the one - who it was - The Son Of God. - - Luk_3:38 Adam, which was the son of God. - Humans are the Sons and Daughters Of God. - - Why would it matter who the Sons of God are - since the book does not say anywhere ( LITERALLY ) that they were angels - one could just as easily assume that the Sons of God are light beams protruding from the sun or morning stars and fertilizing the eggs of women . Do I need to beg, that one will provide a single verse that says that a single angel anywhere is considered " a son of God "
Especially, in total contradiction of Heb_1:5 - where God is commanding that we are to understand and realize that God does not recognize or know of any single one of the Angels, at any time, to whom He has said - Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? and - TO NON OF THE ANGELS - have I ever said that - I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son ? -
And here at the end The Lord - Yahoshua / Jesus Christ “ HIMSELF “ declares that Rev_21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. – This is one of many other verses that completely destroy the entire idea of a Trinity. - And Angels are not even mentioned in Rev_21: but only one single time - and this is 10 whole entire verses later. And in Rev 21:17 the angel here is taking measurements and calculating the cubits of a wall and is too busy to be having sex with anyone.
Every single one of these “ 35 verses “ - are using the same exact Hebrew words - SONS - האלהים - and - GOD בני
These words “ האלהים - - בני “ are the same exact two Hebrew word with the same exact Hebrew vowel endings that we see ( as Sons of God ) in - Gen_6:2 - and 6:4 - and - Job_1:6 - and 2:1 .
“ THEY ARE THE SAME EXACT WORDS “ - I could take the time and space and type every single one of them out – but to save time, I refrain - should you not have already looked it up by now ?
בני bên - אלהים 'ĕlôhı̂ym
SONS and GOD – bên - 'ĕlôhı̂ym - in the same verse.
Verses in black,22 times as Sons - Verses in red, 13 time as Children. -
Also, there is the term called ‘ Son and people of The Lord “ / Yawhea - “ בני יהוה “ found here in
2Sa 1:12 And they mourned, and wept, and fasted ... for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD.
Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father..... if then I be a father, where is mine honour.
Mal 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD .....; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son.
The Bible fully Commands that the Servants and “ SONS and DAUGHTERS of God “ are not to be intermarrying with men and women who are not following God.
2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
:18 I will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Gen 24:3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, God of heaven, and earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
Gen_24:37 My master made me swear, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife to my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, in whose land I dwell:
1Ki 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, ...... Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; :2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you.
Neh 13:23 Certain Jews had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab: :25 And I.....made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.
Neh 13:26 Solomon king of Israel sinned by - transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?
Gen26:34, 35 When Eʹsau two wifes of the Hitʹtite 35 They were a source of great grief to Isaac and Re•bekʹah.
Gen 28:6 Jacob commanded Esau to not take him a wife from the daughters of Canaan.
Gen 27:46 And Rebekah said to Isaac... if Jacob take a wife of the daughters of Heth, ... what good shall my life do me?
Gen 24:4 But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife. Verse 5 - says that Abraham said that Isaac could not find a wife among his family - he is not even to come back home to Canaan.
Jdg 14:3 The father and mother asked Samson - Is there never a woman among the daughters of thy brethren, or my people, that thou goest to take a wife of the uncircumcised Philistines?
Jer_16:2 Thou shalt not take thee a wife, neither shalt thou have sons or daughters in this place.
Gen 24:7 The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.
Ezr 2:61 Certain priests took a wife of the daughters of the Gileadites :62 and they were, as polluted, and put out from the priesthood.
Deu 7:1 The LORD said “ I shall bring thee into the land of the Hittites, Girga****es, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and the Jebusites, :3 You shall not make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
Exo 34:16 Do not take daughters unto thy sons - with the inhabitants of the land
Ezr 10:2 We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land :3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them.
Mal 2:11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, an abomination is committed in Israel and Jerusalem; by marrying the daughter of a strange god. 12 The LORD will cut off the man that doeth.
The fact that Cain is the blood son of Adam does not make him a Son Of God - any more than it made the Hebrew Priests, Scribes and Pharisees in the Holy Temple colluding and diddling with King Herod - anything more, than the serpents / snakes - that Yahoshua labeled them as. Yahoshua said that they were - FROM their FATHER - The Devil. The devil was their Father. - not God. Cain and his seed were just as much the Sons of The devil - just as the Pharisees were the Sons of their The devil - Yahoshus demanded that " YOU ARE FROM YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL " - and the lusts of your father ye will do. ...... Satan is a liar, and the father of lies. _ Joh 8:44.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is your Father ? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is BORN FROM God.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's CHILD, ye would do the works of Abraham. ... :41 Ye do the deeds ofyour FATHER { SATAN ) . Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. :42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
How would Genesis 6:1-2 be any different than the continual message of the entire Bible. From the beginning of time ? - - The IDEA and concept of " Those created by God " are all - the sons and daughters of God, Please explain - where does this have anything to do whatsoever - as simply being born from Adam or Abraham. - - Do we not find that, only those who are obedient to God are the Sons of God. Cain and his wicked seed are not the sons of The God ... ? - - 1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was " FROM " - eXiting out of / from - that wicked one, and slew his brother.
This Greek word ( Saying that Cain was " FROM THE WICKED ONE " - from is the Greek word - G1537 - ἐκ, ἐξ - ek - ex = Meaning = Denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; after, among, by (the means of), (-out of - FROM ). - Cain was literally just as much called - the son of Satan - ( FROM THE WICKED ONE ) - just as much as Yahoshua had called the Priests the " SONS OF THE DEVIL " and not the sons of God.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. :10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God..... :10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: - whosoever doeth not righteousness is not FROM God. - The God of the Bible - God is not a father to people like Cain – nor their seed – which is the seed of The Devil, their Father.
Also, my friends, - Have you ever noticed that - Many Christians are happy to believe and DEMAND the fable that Angels in human bodies - created giants - but yet they recoil and nearly gag in theological disgust in a total dismissal, to the notion that Satan could have entered the serpent and created his very own son - as Cain... Is this not the most hypo – criticish and senseless faith, mindset that you have ever encountered ?
If you believe the negative connotations about the Nephilim as "fallen ones" (not everyone does), I am so horrified by what has happened in NYC and Virginia that I fear those locales are where the descendants of the Nephilim must reside. I do not want to take this into a political discussion, but what is happening there is not good.
[font="Trebuchet MS"]I have read the great responses to my post and have watched the great Youtube movie but when we look at what the Bible actually says in context - we find that the " Sons Of God " - do not have a single thing to with Angels.
As I said, if you can't understand that in Job 38:7 'sons of God' refers to angels, then it's pointless even discussing the issue with you.
In Job 38:7 God is laying the foundations of the earth. Man hadn't been created yet so the sons of God cannot refer to humans. The sons of God who are shouting for joy are angelic beings.
The Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. In Job 38:7 in the Septuagint, the phrase 'sons of God' - bə·nê ’ĕ·lō·hîm in the Hebrew is stated as πάντες ἄγγελοί μου - all my angels. Thus, the Septuagint, the Bible used by Hellenistic Jews and the early church, and which was quoted by the New Testament writers, understands the 'sons of God' to be angels.
And do you seriously think that the Jews who wrote 1 Enoch and Jubilees didn't understand that the term 'sons of God' refers to angels?
And, for the third time, both Peter and Jude said that it was angels who were involved in the Genesis 6:4 event. There is no other possible event in the Hebrew Bible to which Peter and Jude could have been referring. There just isn't.
I didn't even bother to read the rest of your post.
I have read the great responses to my post and have watched the great Youtube movie but when we look at what the Bible actually says in context - we find that the " Sons Of God " - do not have a single thing to with Angels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
As I said, if you can't understand that in Job 38:7 'sons of God' refers to angels, then it's pointless even discussing the issue with you.
There have been messengers’ who have fallen, but they weren’t angels! These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of Pagan philosophers, under the authority of the Emperors who required a national amalgamated religion to solidity their control over the people. Your adversary and the accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour.
"To fully integrate adversity is to assimilate it into one’s own mind."
But he knows the beginning from the end, and calls things as if they were/are present.
In other words, the Sons of God are the human representatives on earth, not out yonder.
There have been messengers’ who have fallen, but they weren’t angels! These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of Pagan philosophers, under the authority of the Emperors who required a national amalgamated religion to solidity their control over the people. Your adversary and the accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour.
"To fully integrate adversity is to assimilate it into one’s own mind."
But he knows the beginning from the end, and calls things as if they were/are present.
In other words, the Sons of God are the human representatives on earth, not out yonder.
Your anti-supernatural bias notwithstanding, it is clear from extra-bibilcal Jewish literature, as well as from the Bible itself that the word άγγελος in many instances refers to supernatural beings. Not to human messengers, For instance, in Luke 20:36 the angels referred to are not human messengers but are a higher order of creation.
Luke 20:35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36] or they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
That your beliefs are not Christian are obvious to all who have read enough of your posts.
Your anti-supernatural bias notwithstanding, it is clear from extra-bibilcal Jewish literature, as well as from the Bible itself that the word άγγελος in many instances refers to supernatural beings. Not to human messengers, For instance, in Luke 20:36 the angels referred to are not human messengers but are a higher order of creation.
Luke 20:35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36] or they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
That your beliefs are not Christian are obvious to all who have read enough of your posts.
Genesis 6:4 refers to angels despite your denial.
Christianism has taken various Pagan ideologies and adopted them as their own.
My beliefs do not incorporate these fables or mythologies as being real or reality.
I quit playing in the sand boxes and with imaginary things of others decades ago.
If you desire to believe in the reality of non-existent entities, that's your choice.
Christianism has taken various Pagan ideologies and adopted them as their own.
My beliefs do not incorporate these fables or mythologies as being real or reality.
I quit playing in the sand boxes and with imaginary things of others decades ago.
If you desire to believe in the reality of non-existent entities, that's your choice.
Christianism has taken various Pagan ideologies and adopted them as their own.
My beliefs do not incorporate these fables or mythologies as being real or reality.
I quit playing in the sand boxes and with imaginary things of others decades ago.
If you desire to believe in the reality of non-existent entities, that's your choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Then you may as well not believe in God either.
I walked away from the teachings of fundamentalism, not from that of an intelligent design for the maturation of humanity which is in need of Spiritual growth.
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I have found out what the Nephilim are
