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I understand that you and others might think so, but there is nothing mechanical about it to me. I find that setting aside time each day to engage with the word of God through a structured cycle of readings is both refreshing and enriching. It's not mindless at all.
I have to admit that the controversy this thread has created is surprising.
I am not surprised. There is a lot of misunderstanding out there.
I understand that you and others might think so, but there is nothing mechanical about it to me. I find that setting aside time each day to engage with the word of God through a structured cycle of readings is both refreshing and enriching. It's not mindless at all.
I have to admit that the controversy this thread has created is surprising.
As a Quaker I would not use any kind of liturgical exercises, but it looks kind of like an exercise in "mindfulness" to me, and if you find it beneficial in your relationship with God and man I say, "carry on." There are some who are so wrapped up in negativity and criticism of the way others conduct their lives that they will argue at the drop of a hat. Don't let them bother you.
As a Quaker I would not use any kind of liturgical exercises, but it looks kind of like an exercise in "mindfulness" to me, and if you find it beneficial in your relationship with God and man I say, "carry on." There are some who are so wrapped up in negativity and criticism of the way others conduct their lives that they will argue at the drop of a hat. Don't let them bother you.
I'm not at all bothered by it, more just surprised that apparently only two other people on a board dedicated to Christianity have even heard of it.
Good to hear from a Quaker, btw. Perhaps oddly for someone who is now Episcopalian, I was married by a Quaker pastor for reasons that are a bit complicated to explain here. One of the kindest and most faith-filled people my spouse and I have ever had the pleasure to know.
As a Quaker I would not use any kind of liturgical exercises, but it looks kind of like an exercise in "mindfulness" to me, and if you find it beneficial in your relationship with God and man I say, "carry on." There are some who are so wrapped up in negativity and criticism of the way others conduct their lives that they will argue at the drop of a hat. Don't let them bother you.
Yes, I have noticed this, too. It's almost automatic to some people to look for what they perceive as "wrong" in any given situation. Very negative.
If something is helping you spiritually, then do it. But if it is for show, or to be seen by others as a person who prays, then no, I wouldn't do that. I've never heard of it. A lot of people don't work in an office and a lot of people would not be allowed to have their own free time while at a job. But if you do and it helps you make it through the day, then I don't see why you shouldn't.
This is a private, meditative practice. Takes 15 minutes.
Minivan Driver. (Who is a man despite his screen name sounding like that of a Brit actress. )
I work out of my house so, for years, I drove the minivan when I picked up the kids. So I made up a ditty named Minivan Driver that can be sung to the old Beatle's tune "Paperback Writer." Basically about driving kids to and from school, soccer practices, violin, ballet, Cub Scouts, et al. I wish I could find the lyrics because it was pretty funny.
As a Quaker I would not use any kind of liturgical exercises, but it looks kind of like an exercise in "mindfulness" to me, and if you find it beneficial in your relationship with God and man I say, "carry on." There are some who are so wrapped up in negativity and criticism of the way others conduct their lives that they will argue at the drop of a hat. Don't let them bother you.
That's a pretty good way to put it.
I just don't understand the desire of people who lambaste the religious or devotional practices of others without first actually bothering to learn about it. While I don't necessarily agree with the approach of Quakers, I do have a great deal of respect for how they go about matters. The Quaker's walk with Christ just takes a different--And, admittedly, often harder--path than the one I have chosen. But it certainly doesn't mean one is wrong and the other is right. Yet there are lots of people on this board who have a "My way or the highway approach," a weird absolutism that is based on nothing but personal preferences. And then they twist Scripture around to suit their purposes.
Let's take 2ndpillar as an example. He offers a kneejerk criticism, whipping out a verse of Isaiah as proof. Yet that verse is more concerned about what's in the hearts of those who worship and their motivations for worshiping rather than the text of worship itself. Because he knows nothing about liturgy and its endless flexibility and variations, he simply performs a drive-by and moves on, apparently satisfied that he smote others with lesser convictions. However, he doesn't know the hearts and minds of those who use this method.
In truth, large portions of the liturgy are rooted in how the earliest Christian churches worshiped together, which means we are participating in a millennia-long act of participation and prayer with those generations that have come before us.
I just don't understand the desire of people who lambaste the religious or devotional practices of others without first actually bothering to learn about it. While I don't necessarily agree with the approach of Quakers, I do have a great deal of respect for how they go about matters. The Quaker's walk with Christ just takes a different path than the one I would choose. But it certainly doesn't mean one is wrong and the other is right. Yet there are lots of people on this board who have a "My way or the highway approach," a weird absolutism that is based on nothing but personal preferences. And then they twist Scripture around to suit their purposes.
In truth, large portions of the liturgy are rooted in how the earliest Christian churches worshiped together, which means we are participating in a millennia-long act of participation and prayer with those generations that have come before us.
Which is the beauty of it for me, and I also agree with something you mentioned earlier, that praying the office, whether it's the complex or simplified version, is a deep dive into scripture, particularly the psalms. If you pray the office daily, you'll get through all of the psalms in just one month plus a substantial amount of the old and new testaments. That's a lot of scripture! There is something about the psalms, though. Reading/chanting/listening to them daily reminds me that people of faith have always wrestled with life and belief, and I find that comforting as I work through my own daily struggles.
Last edited by randomparent; 12-13-2018 at 07:15 AM..
In the past, I rolled my eyes at lay people who made it a practice, but it's been transformative for me. Anyone else?
I also discovered the Daily Office / Liturgy of the Hours / Divine Office about 10 years ago. I find it to be a great experience and resource. It took a while to understand the mechanics of it, I even bought a book called something like Divine Office for Dummies which helped.
I used to have a very long daily commute, and I settled on Morning and Evening prayer, and Night prayer as a daily practice. I would also add in the Office of Readings which I found very interesting. If you go to daily Mass (Catholic) you will also find the readings from Mass blend in with the readings, prayers and themes of the daily office.
After learning how to use the books I ran across some web sites and apps that automate all of the book flipping, making it painless to follow and to just concentrate on the prayers. I even found a web site that would create custom daily pdf files for any day or office.
I’ve looked into different variations of the office, and one I really like is the Monastic Diurnal (Anglican?) which is a good single volume old style office, abridged for traveling. I found a copy here:
I also really enjoy the sung version of the office. This adds another level of complexity but at least for me the singing can help to bring your heart into your prayer. I think it may have been Augustine who said something like “He who sings his prayer prays twice” (bad paraphrase).
I greatly prefer the traditional Gregorian psalm chant, here is an example of Vespers/Evening prayer in the old style:
The whole Office can be sung. I have looked into some modern variations of the sung Office using vernacular language (English) but to me they lack the power of the old version.
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