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I immediately notice that Jesus didn't write the Gospel According to Matthew, the Gospel According to Mark, or Romans. No one really knows who wrote Gospels Matthew and Mark. They were written anonymously decades after Jesus was claimed to have been executed, around 30 ad. "Romans" is a letter written by Paul sometime in the 50's ad. But Paul by his own admission never knew the earthly Jesus. Paul's claim to authority is his claim to have met Jesus several years after Jesus was executed.
Jesus left nothing written in his own hand. So it is impossible to know WHAT Jesus actually referenced. The things you think you know about Jesus are actually derived from claims made by others.
"Everlasting torment is intolerable from a moral point of view because it makes God into a bloodthirsty monster who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for victims whom he does not even allow to die," wrote the late Clark Pinnock, an influential evangelical theologian.
The ancient writers did not define the word αἰώνιος by the English translations or the word eternal. Aidios (ἀΐδιος) equates to that which is eternal, not aionios which is not its equivalent. Although αἰώνιος (aionios) may relate to that which is a long time or over the horizon, it does not mean eternal, unending or forever and ever as in eternity. Although it continues to appear that man cannot comprehend the existence of his errors, when too deeply immersed in them.
Why someone would want to support the idea of eternal punishment is beyond any moral comprehension; and is nothing more or less than sadistic, vengeful and absurdly asinine. It doesn't matter how many ways you want to justify it with an elitism mentality. No one is any greater or less than anyone else. The biggest problem with religion is that it believes otherwise - exalting itself.
Just keep adding onto the definition of what you believe is the meaning of a word to support your agenda.
And the pit (hole, grave) one digs becomes an eternal place of hellfire and brimstone for human damnation.
You cannot take something that is non-existent and call it reality by any stretch of the imagination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
It doesn't make any sense at all, and although we all begin thinking that is the case, it isn't the case. I would say that even Peter was unaware of what the truth really is, but the author of Revelation understood the symbolism of it, that we are both the evil and the righteous, the evil is taken away and everyone thinks it is speaking of certain people they think are wicked, but we are all the wicked.
The thoughts of HELL (damnation) will be removed in due time, as ALL MEN come to the knowledge of truth.
One is taken, the other remains. So much for the false "secrete" rapture of the Church.
The thoughts of HELL and damnation will be removed in due time, as ALL MEN come to the knowledge of the truth.
One is taken, the other remains.
Christians are continously speaking about the great day of division and it is literally shown in everything from the sacrifice being cut in half and God walking between the halves, to the waters dividing, to Elijah and Elisha being divided, the wheat and tare being divided, 2 men in a bed being divided, the mount of Olives being cut in half, two goats on Yom kippur with the exact same name, divided. Barrabass had the exact same name as Jesus. We had to see the two on either side of Jesus, one had to be saved, and the other not saved, and this just goes on and on and back to the very beginning, we see Jacob standing inside his brother Esau as the two represented one person inside a womb. The first born and the second born, and Galatians and Romans both explain this, that we are of Ishmael and of Isaac, we are of Esau and Jacob, we are of Cain and Abel, '' Ephraim and Judah.''
It is shown in redundancy, where we wait to be divided as the goat and the sheep.
Jesus being in the middle of those two thieves, it is a picture of Jerusalem being raised up, and both kingdoms present on either side of Jesus as Jerusalem is between the two kingdoms. Jerusalem is another name for the soul.
There are many claims that are generally considered to be historically accurate which were derived from the testimony of others, this is true. It's also true that this dependence on the testimony of others increases the further back into the past we attempt to understand. Does that mean that our knowledge of the past may be faulty? The answer, unfortunately, is yes.
But there are no stories which are generally considered to be valid history which are based on claims that are supernatural in nature. In other words, claims which contradict that which is commonly observed to be true.
For example, the story, which is contained in the Koran, that Muhammad rode on a flying beast up to heaven where he visited the prophets, the angels, and ultimately God Himself, is a religious belief rather than an established historical event. Much in the same way the story that the corpse of Jesus returned to life and subsequently flew away is a religious belief rather than an established historical event.
Beliefs are subjective in nature, in that they are subject to an individual's worldview. Which is to say, their specific brand of indoctrination. On the other hand, there is no reason to suppose that the things which are commonly observed to be true today were not just as valid in the past as they are now.
Jesus references Hell multiple times. Matthew 22:13, Mark 9:43, Matthew 10:28. If you are repulsed by the idea or flat out reject what Jesus said about eternal torment then you are not being led by the Spirit. If you do not have the Spirit then you are not part of God’s Church. Romans 8:14 The Scriptures are the Truth inspired by the Spirit. And, God does not deny His own Word. He is incapable of lying. 1 Samuel 15:29
It appears many are disturbed by this Truth and quite a few of similar messages have been ridiculed, redacted and deleted. Remember Jesus severely warned about this type of attitude. If God is threatening you might want to reconsider your actions. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of a wrathful God.
Another way to bring people to Christianity or God and Jesus.
Who is eventually going to plug the incessant flow of the super abounding grace, mercy and love of God ? This flow like the sound of many waters is continually speaking grace, mercy, love and peace. It never dries up, it’s continually there. If you are still, you can hear it, it does no harm other than erode all your false beliefs, conceptions and assumptions about your Heavenly Father away when you hear it.
How possibly can there be a place of eternal torment, never mind one created by our Heavenly Father ?.
And his voice was like the sound of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
Who is eventually going to plug the flow of the super abounding grace, mercy and love of God ? This flow like the sound of many waters is continually speaking grace, mercy, love and peace. It never dries up, it’s continually there. If you are still, you can hear it, it does no harm other than erode all your false beliefs, conceptions and assumptions about your Heavenly Father away when you hear it.
How possibly can there be a place of eternal torment, never mind one created by our Heavenly Father ?.
And his voice was like the sound of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
I agree
The “waters” are us, we can be peaceful gentle flowing streams or the turmoil of the “seas”
That is why there are no more “seas” predicted in the new heaven and earth
Hab 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.
Who is eventually going to plug the incessant flow of the super abounding grace, mercy and love of God ? This flow like the sound of many waters is continually speaking grace, mercy, love and peace. It never dries up, it’s continually there. If you are still, you can hear it, it does no harm other than erode all your false beliefs, conceptions and assumptions about your Heavenly Father away when you hear it.
How possibly can there be a place of eternal torment, never mind one created by our Heavenly Father ?.
And his voice was like the sound of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
Dear Pcamps: That my friend is an incredible statement of fact.
Incessant super abounding flow of mercy and love of God.
Another way to bring people to Christianity or God and Jesus.
Bringing people to Jesus is not quite accurate. The Spirit draws His followers to Himself. It is our decision whether we accept the offer or reject it.
But I get the sentiment because I thought and felt the exact same way.
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So much for the false "secrete" rapture of the Church.
