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Old 05-02-2021, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,190,517 times
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Primitive, barbaric people dream up primitive, barbaric god-things that require primitive, barbaric appeasing.

No surprise that today's crop of primitive, barbaric fundies are cool with it.
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Old 05-02-2021, 09:46 PM
 
63,817 posts, read 40,099,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
I can mostly agree with this, but you are implying (or straight up saying) that Jesus isn't Himself God. Of course, I can't agree with that.
The reason Jesus could do those things perfectly is because he IS God. "Before Abraham was, I AM".
The only sacrifice that could redeem mankind was one God offered up Himself on our behalf as both Priest and Victim, and continues to offer up at every Mass.
The Trinity nonsense is the result of our ancestors lack of knowledge about consciousness as the essence of personhood. God IS Spirit. That is pure consciousness and it has a Holy character Jesus identified as agape love. Our human consciousness is God reproducing His consciousness so our goal is to achieve resonance with the character of agape love as closely as we can. Jesus achieved in His HUMAN consciousness "perfect resonance" (which is IDENTITY) with God's Holy Spirit of agape love. Identical is identical, so whether or not Jesus the human being was God, He certainly reproduced God's consciousness in His human consciousness. To me, it is a moot point that has been made all too much of especially by creating a whole jargon to pretend to explain it.
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Old 05-02-2021, 09:53 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,240 posts, read 26,455,707 times
Reputation: 16371
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
You misunderstand. God never needed anything from us, and of course God never changes.

We are the ones who were in need. We were incapable of reconciling ourselves to God until Christ came and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice.

The sacrifice of Jesus encompassed His entire life. He lived an ascetic life, shunning luxury even though He was entitled to it. Yes, his agape love and forgiveness of those torturing and executing Him was indeed part of His sacrifice.

You're looking at the idea of sacrifice from a Calvinist perspective, even though you're not a Calvinist. The Catholic idea is not what you are characterizing it as. Therefore, I didn't avoid your question. It's just that your question is built on a false premise. Appeasement is not what it's about.
Actually, appeasement is what it is about unless you want to ignore the fact that the idea of appeasement is mentioned at least three times in the New Testament The biblical word in the Greek is ἱλασμός - hilasmos, translated as propitiation which means to satisfy or appease an offended party. The word is used Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2, and 1 John 4:10.
Romans 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in God’s merciful restraint He let the sins previously committed go unpunished;

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Strong's Concordance
hilastérion: propitiatory
Original Word: ἱλαστήριον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: hilastérion
Phonetic Spelling: (hil-as-tay'-ree-on)
Definition: propitiatory
Usage: (a) a sin offering, by which the wrath of the deity shall be appeased; a means of propitiation, (b) the covering of the ark, which was sprinkled with the atoning blood on the Day of Atonement.

HELPS Word-studies
2435 hilastḗrion (a substantival adjective, derived from 2433 /hiláskomai, "to propitiate") – the place of propitiation; the lid of the golden ark (the mercy-seat) where the blood of a vicarious lamb appeased God's wrath on sin. See also 2434 (hilasmós).

https://biblehub.com/greek/2435.htm

Sin is an offense against God who must judge sin. Jesus bore our sins on the cross and paid the wages of sin as our substitute thus propitiating, satisfying, appeasing God's judgment on sin.

But . . . many people just ignore what they don't want to hear, so . . .
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Old 05-02-2021, 09:59 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,177,517 times
Reputation: 374
4
"Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar,"
read the whole thing....
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:02 PM
 
63,817 posts, read 40,099,995 times
Reputation: 7876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
Actually, appeasement is what it is about unless you want to ignore the fact that the idea of appeasement is mentioned at least three times in the New Testament The biblical word in the Greek is ἱλασμός - hilasmos, translated as propitiation which means to satisfy or appease an offended party. The word is used Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2, and 1 John 4:10.
Romans 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in God’s merciful restraint He let the sins previously committed go unpunished;

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Strong's Concordance
hilastérion: propitiatory
Original Word: ἱλαστήριον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: hilastérion
Phonetic Spelling: (hil-as-tay'-ree-on)
Definition: propitiatory
Usage: (a) a sin offering, by which the wrath of the deity shall be appeased; a means of propitiation, (b) the covering of the ark, which was sprinkled with the atoning blood on the Day of Atonement.

HELPS Word-studies
2435 hilastḗrion (a substantival adjective, derived from 2433 /hiláskomai, "to propitiate") – the place of propitiation; the lid of the golden ark (the mercy-seat) where the blood of a vicarious lamb appeased God's wrath on sin. See also 2434 (hilasmós).

https://biblehub.com/greek/2435.htm

Sin is an offense against God who must judge sin. Jesus bore our sins on the cross and paid the wages of sin as our substitute thus propitiating, satisfying, appeasing God's judgment on sin.

But . . . many people just ignore what they don't want to hear, so . . .
::Sigh:: He's all yours, EscAlaMike.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:08 PM
 
4,483 posts, read 1,322,384 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
Actually, appeasement is what it is about unless you want to ignore the fact that the idea of appeasement is mentioned at least three times in the New Testament The biblical word in the Greek is ἱλασμός - hilasmos, translated as propitiation which means to satisfy or appease an offended party. The word is used Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2, and 1 John 4:10.
Romans 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in God’s merciful restraint He let the sins previously committed go unpunished;

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Strong's Concordance
hilastérion: propitiatory
Original Word: ἱλαστήριον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: hilastérion
Phonetic Spelling: (hil-as-tay'-ree-on)
Definition: propitiatory
Usage: (a) a sin offering, by which the wrath of the deity shall be appeased; a means of propitiation, (b) the covering of the ark, which was sprinkled with the atoning blood on the Day of Atonement.

HELPS Word-studies
2435 hilastḗrion (a substantival adjective, derived from 2433 /hiláskomai, "to propitiate") – the place of propitiation; the lid of the golden ark (the mercy-seat) where the blood of a vicarious lamb appeased God's wrath on sin. See also 2434 (hilasmós).

https://biblehub.com/greek/2435.htm

Sin is an offense against God who must judge sin. Jesus bore our sins on the cross and paid the wages of sin as our substitute thus propitiating, satisfying, appeasing God's judgment on sin.

But . . . many people just ignore what they don't want to hear, so . . .
That's exactly right Michael, the point of the whole matter!

"many people just ignore what they don't want to hear"
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:13 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,177,517 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24 View Post
That's exactly right Michael, the point of the whole matter!

"many people just ignore what they don't want to hear"
12"No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us."
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:24 PM
 
4,483 posts, read 1,322,384 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
12"No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us."
He gives us that love AFTER we go through His Blood!

Wouldn't you agree Duval?
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:31 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,177,517 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24 View Post
He gives us that love AFTER we go through His Blood!

Wouldn't you agree Duval?
no really, trying to understand the whole message.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:38 PM
 
4,483 posts, read 1,322,384 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
no really, trying to understand the whole message.
What do you gather from the message "we must go through the blood of Christ?"
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