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95:10.19 (2086.5) If Christianity could only grasp more of Jesus’ teachings, it could do so much more in helping modern man to solve his new and increasingly complex problems.
195:10.20 (2086.6) Christianity suffers under a great handicap because it has become identified in the minds of all the world as a part of the social system, the industrial life, and the moral standards of Western civilization; and thus has Christianity unwittingly seemed to sponsor a society which staggers under the guilt of tolerating science without idealism, politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without restraint, knowledge without character, power without conscience, and industry without morality.
195:10.21 (2086.7) The hope of modern Christianityis that it should cease to sponsor the social systems and industrial policies of Western civilization while it humbly bows itself before the cross it so valiantly extols, there to learn anew from Jesus of Nazareth the greatest truths mortal man can ever hear—the living gospel of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.
I think this is about where we decide to focus our own individual/personal attention and if we have counted the cost
The cost of following Jesus is to willingly give up our own type of affiliation and affection for the system while retaining understanding and empathy for the individuals within the systems
Shana I am not so hasty to think of it as fake Christianity it is more the external Christianity
All these threads relate to each other and we see the huge diversity and difference of the systems of Christianity by what people bring to the forum from their own particular part and perspective
I am not against Christianity per se as it has been needed/necessary to contain all the workers who have been labouring in the field over the past 2000 years, and also to educate them in various religious things
We are at the end of that particular period/age
Sincerely curious what you mean in the last sentence, and how you arrived at that.
If you're a real born-again Saint of God, you will be hated of all nations and many will be killed for their testimony.
Revelation 6
[9] And when he [Jesus] had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Sincerely curious what you mean in the last sentence, and how you arrived at that.
The spread of secular education to the masses has rendered the fables and old wives' tales in the OT impotent and the misinterpretations of Jesus and God more glaring. That enlightened awareness is a different venue in which the beliefs in God find themselves, IMO.
The spread of secular education to the masses has rendered the fables and old wives' tales in the OT impotent and the misinterpretations of Jesus and God more glaring. That enlightened awareness is a different venue in which the beliefs in God find themselves, IMO.
Yes. I realize that.
I got the impression Meerkat was thinking in terms of a manifestation of God's plan for us.
If that's what she's referring to, I'm genuinely interested in her take on the idea.
Sincerely curious what you mean in the last sentence, and how you arrived at that.
Sorry I can’t do it without the Scriptures and it is more how I have come to it by reading a lot and impartially looking at the different religious points of view of Christianity itself/herself and the Holy Scriptures themselves and how the things fit together
It all centres around John I think (and others have described this awareness as well)
In Revelation we see
Rev 1:1**The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2**Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3**Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
This what the OT looked forward to, it is the beginning of the latter Days (which seem to be 2 Days)
The books of Isaiah and Hosea have to do with salvation that is their context
Isa 1:1**The vision of Isaiah
Hos 1:1**The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea
Isaiah = H3470 (Strong)
יְשַׁעְיָהוּ יְשַׁעְיָה
yesha‛yâh yesha‛yâhû
yesh-ah-yaw', yesh-ah-yaw'-hoo
From H3467 and H3050; Jah has saved; Jeshajah, the name of seven Israelites: - Isaiah, Jesaiah, Jeshaiah.
Hosea = H1954 (Strong)
הוֹשֵׁעַ
hôshêa‛
ho-shay'-ah
From H3467; deliverer; Hoshea, the name of five Israelites: - Hosea, Hoshea, Oshea.
Isa 1:2**Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
Isa 1:3**The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
Isa 1:4**Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Hos 6:1**Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
Hos 6:2**After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Hos 6:3**Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
What I see looking at the past 2000 years or 2 Days understanding the Day/year principle in prophecy is 3 sections of this time
500 years where the orthodox and heresy was recorded by the Saints/Doctors/Fathers
1000 Roman dominion over the Church (they were the restraining force which was then taken out of the way as predicted)
Then 500 years for the Protestant Reformation
We are now at the end of that period which was termed the latter Days and at the end of that last time as well
I am not saying I am right or wrong I am not personally invested in any of this at all - just what seems to fit when I try to understand and co-ordinate the different points of view that have been brought forward
The spread of secular education to the masses has rendered the fables and old wives' tales in the OT impotent and the misinterpretations of Jesus and God more glaring. That enlightened awareness is a different venue in which the beliefs in God find themselves, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2
Sorry I can’t do it without the Scriptures and it is more how I have come to it by reading a lot and impartially looking at the different religious points of view of Christianity itself/herself and the Holy Scriptures themselves and how the things fit together
It all centres around John I think (and others have described this awareness as well)
In Revelation we see
Rev 1:1**The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2**Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3**Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
This what the OT looked forward to, it is the beginning of the latter Days (which seem to be 2 Days)
The books of Isaiah and Hosea have to do with salvation that is their context
Isa 1:2**Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
Isa 1:3**The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
Isa 1:4**Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Hos 6:1**Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
Hos 6:2**After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Hos 6:3**Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
What I see looking at the past 2000 years or 2 Days understanding the Day/year principle in prophecy is 3 sections of this time
500 years where the orthodox and heresy was recorded by the Saints/Doctors/Fathers
1000 Roman dominion over the Church
500 years for the Protestant Reformation
Now at the end of that period which was termed the latter Days
I love your honesty regarding your inability to use language to describe spiritual truths.
So, you return to that imperfectly perfect scripture to describe the undescribable.
Was hoping you had a new words to articulate it. I certainly don't.
Sincerely curious what you mean in the last sentence, and how you arrived at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The spread of secular education to the masses has rendered the fables and old wives' tales in the OT impotent and the misinterpretations of Jesus and God more glaring. That enlightened awareness is a different venue in which the beliefs in God find themselves, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback
Yes. I realize that.
I got the impression Meerkat was thinking in terms of a manifestation of God's plan for us.
If that's what she's referring to, I'm genuinely interested in her take on the idea.
Yep, oakback and me are on the same page, I think he understands I’m not thinking personally, it’s impartial and objective
In Matthew 24, Jesus gave a clear-cut sign of the end times.
Matthew 24
[9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
In our generation, this Scripture is being fulfilled. In fulfillment of the first part of this Scripture, Christians are being afflicted and killed in many parts of the world, e.g., China, North Korea, Africa, Hindu and Islamic nations. In the Western world, Christians are not killed but rather are hated and ostracized because they resist the avalanche of sin being normalized, e.g., wicked entertainment, homosexuality, transgenderism, etc.., fulfilling the second part of the Scripture.
There is no other religion in the world that is hated of all nations like Christianity. It's time to brace yourselves, as it's going to get very tough for real Christians. Hold fast in your heart to the truth and testimony of Jesus Christ because the hour of His triumphant return is drawing very near. He gave us signs for a reason. Remember, Jesus rebuked the people of His day because they did not recognize the sign of His first coming.
Matthew 16
[1] The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
[2] He [Jesus] answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
[3] And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
You might want to look at Mathew 24 in its entirety.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
If we look to further to Matthew 25 you will see that there is a clear calling to help the less fortunate in the world. Jesus says very clearly that if you are doing this actively you will not get eternal salvation.
My interpretation of these chapters is to stop worrying about the end of our material earth and try to live by Christ's example. A selfish focus on personal salvation is the wrong approach IMHO. Focus on the here and now and salvation will only come from good deeds.
I love your honesty regarding your inability to use language to describe spiritual truths.
So, you return to that imperfectly perfect scripture to describe the undescribable.
Was hoping you had a new words to articulate it. I certainly don't.
Therein lies the rub.
I think I misunderstood what you were asking
We each are limited by our own intellectual/emotional selves and we can only each comprehend what relates to us personally or on what we have experienced or read or processed
We are all imperfect human beings within the much greater scheme, I am aware of that and I have come to the stage of being comfortable with that
My religious indoctrination is something I can’t let go but I have been able to understand that it has a connection to something greater than me personally and individually, and I believe there are a lot more on this forum who have that same type of religious predisposition that is beyond their own control
This is where I see that are divisions or divides between our purely human self and to our responsibilities with each other and those which are over us as parents/teachers/keepers at the societal and religious type level
These can and do get confused and mixed up, the spiritual and the religious are connected via threads I think
It seems to take experience to switch between the impersonal and the personal, the religious and spiritual, and to be able to see and understand that while they are linked they can also be disconnected or irrelevant too
Maybe you could give me some of your views as I am not a teacher, and we can both gain from it
Also, this thread is about the end times and the signs for that …. I was trying to be on-topic
Last edited by Meerkat2; 07-29-2023 at 03:48 PM..
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