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The Father punished the Son, for our sins, that we might be saved. Psalm 22:14-18, Luke 9:22, Matt. 27:46, Isaiah 52:14, 1 John 2:2
But how does that ^^^ make ANY SENSE whatsoever in ANY realm that's not, well, "religious"? (In other words, if such words were spoken about anything else in the world, we'd say, "Wow, that's bizarre. Who would believe such things?" But say it's about your religion and suddenly it's supposed to all make sense. But of course it DOESN'T make any sense at all, and just labeling it "religion" doesn't fix that.)
And of course, people who believe in OTHER religions would ask the same questions about YOURS that I just asked -- but not about THEIR religion -- which also makes no sense at all.
Doesn't that make ANY of you kind of scratch your head and say, "Wow, this really DOESN'T make any sense"? Not being disrespectful here (unless you think any kind of questioning is automatically disrespectful) -- just wondering about the utter lack of logic.
Here is how I understand the reason God suffered for us.
Sin separates us from God.
He (the righteous) suffered for us (the unrighteous). Why? That He might bring us to God.
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,” (1 Peter 3:18)
I tend to think that the suffering was not the point, the suffering was/is part of the process of healing and saving us humanity/humans
It’s like cutting out the diseased parts is painful and necessary
The circumcision and baptism language that is used in Scripture is the metaphor/symbol for this ‘spiritual’ thing that happens to our ‘soul’
But how does that ^^^ make ANY SENSE whatsoever in ANY realm that's not, well, "religious"? (In other words, if such words were spoken about anything else in the world, we'd say, "Wow, that's bizarre. Who would believe such things?" But say it's about your religion and suddenly it's supposed to all make sense. But of course it DOESN'T make any sense at all, and just labeling it "religion" doesn't fix that.)
And of course, people who believe in OTHER religions would ask the same questions about YOURS that I just asked -- but not about THEIR religion -- which also makes no sense at all.
Doesn't that make ANY of you kind of scratch your head and say, "Wow, this really DOESN'T make any sense"? Not being disrespectful here (unless you think any kind of questioning is automatically disrespectful) -- just wondering about the utter lack of logic.
Well, this is the Christianity forum. Your line of questioning would be more appropriate on the Religion & Spirituality forum.
Nevertheless, from a Christian point of view, we humans are incapable of saving ourselves from the penalty of sin, since we are flawed. Jesus, on the other hand, was sinless and qualified to satisfy God’s holiness.
What was the point of Jesus suffering on the cross?
Our primitive ancestors believed in a God who became so angry at our progenitors' first act of disobedience that He cursed them and their descendants in perpetuity! This was a jealous, dictatorial God who brooks no disobedience and constantly needs to be appeased by us "filthy rags" by using sacrifices. That is NOT who God is or EVER was! Jesus came to unambiguously reveal and demonstrate that God is NOT that monster of primitive imagination by showing that NOTHING we do would ever incur God's wrath and lack of forgiveness.
That doesn't alter the fact that any negative spiritual consequences we might face will be entirely the result of whatever we BECOME, NOT God's non-existent wrath or punishment. Jesus endured the absolute worst of our savagery and brutality in that era. His perfect agape love and forgiveness were so completely alien to that era that God's true nature should have been unmistakable. It was IMO but sadly, our human perversity just reinterpreted His love as obedience to God's wrath and need for appeasement. It has been a travesty of human ignorance, vanity, and hubris for over two millennia and counting, IMO.
Our primitive ancestors believed in a God who became so angry at our progenitors' first act of disobedience that He cursed them and their descendants in perpetuity! This was a jealous, dictatorial God who brooks no disobedience and constantly needs to be appeased by us "filthy rags" by using sacrifices. That is NOT who God is or EVER was! Jesus came to unambiguously reveal and demonstrate that God is NOT that monster of primitive imagination by showing that NOTHING we do would ever incur God's wrath and lack of forgiveness.
That doesn't alter the fact that any negative spiritual consequences we might face will be entirely the result of whatever we BECOME, NOT God's non-existent wrath or punishment. Jesus endured the absolute worst of our savagery and brutality in that era. His perfect agape love and forgiveness were so completely alien to that era that God's true nature should have been unmistakable. It was IMO but sadly, our human perversity just reinterpreted His love as obedience to God's wrath and need for appeasement. It has been a travesty of human ignorance, vanity, and hubris for over two millennia and counting, IMO.
Our primitive ancestors believed in a God who became so angry at our progenitors' first act of disobedience that He cursed them and their descendants in perpetuity! This was a jealous, dictatorial God who brooks no disobedience and constantly needs to be appeased by us "filthy rags" by using sacrifices. That is NOT who God is or EVER was! Jesus came to unambiguously reveal and demonstrate that God is NOT that monster of primitive imagination by showing that NOTHING we do would ever incur God's wrath and lack of forgiveness.
That doesn't alter the fact that any negative spiritual consequences we might face will be entirely the result of whatever we BECOME, NOT God's non-existent wrath or punishment. Jesus endured the absolute worst of our savagery and brutality in that era. His perfect agape love and forgiveness were so completely alien to that era that God's true nature should have been unmistakable. It was IMO but sadly, our human perversity just reinterpreted His love as obedience to God's wrath and need for appeasement. It has been a travesty of human ignorance, vanity, and hubris for over two millennia and counting, IMO.
You are free to reject the God-breathed Scriptures, Mystic.
“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life" (Romans 5:8-10).
“But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds" (Romans 2:5-6).
Jesus' death on the cross allows people to be saved from their sins and by that forgiveness they no longer need to face the certainty of punishment for their sins.
The Father punished the Son, for our sins, that we might be saved. Psalm 22:14-18, Luke 9:22, Matt. 27:46, Isaiah 52:14, 1 John 2:2
Could you please explain why you believe it is just to punish the innocent for the wicked? If you had five children, four of whom constantly disobeyed you and one who never did, would you punish the one who never disobeyed and call it good?
Could you please explain why you believe it is just to punish the innocent for the wicked? If you had five children, four of whom constantly disobeyed you and one who never did, would you punish the one who never disobeyed and call it good?
Okay, but you didn't actually answer my question. How is punishing the innocent a just behavior? We wouldn't do that ourselves, but we think it's fine for God to do it. Why couldn't God just look into our hearts and see if we'd truly repented, and forgive us if we had. If your kids did something wrong but were truly repentant, would you feel it necessary to punish them?
Last edited by Katzpur; 03-25-2024 at 11:34 AM..
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What was the point of Jesus suffering on the cross?
I couldn't have worded this better.
