End times

[JamesMRohde]

If you would at least attempt to confine your expression of what you believe to the words God Himself chose to make His revelation known you would discover as I have that much of what we were told by others to practice or believe has no place in a strictly Scriptural Christianity.

Like the 3 times occurring phrase "great tribulation" never has the number 7 attached to it; in other words, the phrase "the 7 year(s) great tribulation" never occurs in Holy Writ. The 3 times "great tribulation" occurs are: Mt 24:21, Rv 2:22, Rv 7:14. It seems to me from their context they are not all speaking of the same event. In other words, "great tribulation" is a phrase applied to more than one thing. Some Preterists might say they are one thing. I have not absolutely proved or disproved that to my own satisfaction. Regardless, what is decisive is that the number 7 is not used in any occurrence of the phrase "great tribulation." This indisputable Bible fact, for those whose expressions of faith are limited to the actual words of the Bible, verified from the original languages, requires them to cease using it when discussing Bible doctrines unless as an illustration of a non-Biblical artifact. Without that the whole eschatological time line scheme of racial dispensationalism collapses. A common "non-answer" to this fact I have examined in the following:

No adding up this here and subtracting that there will suffice to make up for the non-existence of this phrase. IT IS NOT WRITTEN! If you add the mentions of 3 1/2 years in the Revelation they equal 10 1/2 years. Perhaps there is meaning in adding up the various descriptions of this period. The 42 months indicate the perspective of the lunar reflective, rule over night, the menstrual cycle, church realm; the sun is the day perspective, emphasizing the Divine view; the years are seasonal perspectives, sowing and reaping, even generational; etc. While perhaps not "adding to" the word of the prophecy of this scroll as is warned against, it is certainly "adding" the words, pun intended. There is no warrant in the text to either do this or base so large a theory on such computations.

"Forty and two months" occurs twice (Rev 11:2; 13:5) but are they the same period? Should they be added into some grand total? Days (Rev 11:3; 12:6) add up to another 7 years but there is no lawful basis, that is, it is without Scriptural directive to do this "adding" as a foundation for claiming proof of some kind of seven years. They are apparently two mentions from "the Day" view of the same period. "Time, times and half a time" (Rev 12:14) happens once. So we have 10 1/2 years, 7 years of days and 7 years of months plus an assumed additional 3 1/2 years in times which equal 28 (four 7's?) years all told. Of course, without determining what is concurrent or consecutive we have no reliable results concerning our search for a specified seven year period.

Leviticus has the most numbers of any book of the Bible, containing the dimensions of the tabernacle. The book with the second most numbers in it is Revelation. Surely if God intended us to count on a closing 7 years period called the great tribulation it would seem of all books in which He would speak of it would be the Revelation. But no! It's not there! However many, perhaps even if all of the 3 1/2 year periods pertain to the same period only repeatedly mentioned, ALL, I repeat ALL these numbers were actually mentioning not 7 but 3 1/2 year periods. That is a fact. (It was 7 or 8 times mentioned if you assume the "time, times and half a time" is included.) Another fact: the Romans besieged Jerusalem 3 1/2 years before it's destruction.

My mind is dazzled by the almost unbelievable fact that people's lips say they believe the Bible then make a word such as "rapture" or a phrase such as "7 year(s) great tribulation," both of which are conclusively non-existent in the Holy Writings of the Oracles of God, to be kind of lynch-pins for something as important as the nature of the transition from "the last days" of this eon into "the new day" of the next. Of course this is done with other matters too, like the phrase "original sin" or "immortal soul." It is absolutely a violation of my conscience as a Christian for whom the Bible is the objective standard for my faith and practice. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Is 8:20)

I admit there are times when it is convenient or functionally irrelevant to use other words, like "eschatology" or "teleology" though these are based on Scriptural words. But I must insist, when we are attempting to access conclusively what is revealed in Holy Writ for our faith and practice we must confine ourselves to the words the Holy Spirit, God Himself, has chosen to make His revelation known. If we cannot conform ourselves to the objective authority of what is or is not written we are deceived and will deceive others. This is not to say we are entirely outside of the grace of God. He is very merciful, and just as mankind in it's immaturity was winked at, so in our own childish ignorance we may have not come under the strict discipline of such adherence to Scripture.

[jeapostle]

We are not living in the last days. The Last days were the last days of the Old Covenant and the age of the law. Peter quoted Joel as a fulfillment in the last days on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2). The apostles understood they were living in the last days (Heb.1:2; Jas.5:3; 1 Pet.1:20; 2 Pet.3:3). John understood they were living in the last time (1 John 2:18). Moses prophesied the last days of Israel, and the vengeance that would come upon them for killing the prophets (Deut.32:29,35-36,43 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/NIV/Deut.32.29,35-36,43 - broken link)). This vengeance did come upon Israel and that generation (Matt.23:34-38). This vengeance is found in Revelation with the fall of Babylon (Rev.18:20, 19:1-2 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/NIV/Rev.18.20,%2019.1-2 - broken link)). Babylon is first century Jerusalem, that great city, also called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified (Rev.17:18,11:8 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/NIV/Rev.17.18,11.8 - broken link)).