Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You can't just pick a scripture to explain a situation or issue just because it has the term you are looking for. The scripture and issue must have very similar context
Yes context.. I totally agree. With context comes individual interpretation
For instance you quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
The Apostles judged;The Apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God”
What was the "context" of pauls writings here? What is the context of the word Malakoi & Aresenokoitai?
I think all should be viewed in "context". I wish more truly did.
Again, you tell us(or myself) to look at context, but you yourself don't even look at the words being used.
Judge:
1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
6) to rule, govern
a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
a) to dispute
b) in a forensic sense
1) to go to law, have suit at law
Now, by doing the judging, you have in fact taken a job from God that is rightfully His. You quoted 2 verses saying we are to rebuke sin:
Quote:
WE ARE COMMANDED TO JUDGE! (Luke 17:3) "Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him," (1 Timothy 5:20) "As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear."
(2 Timothy 4:2) "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage with great patience and careful instruction." We are to "judge" sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences which is our Lord Jesus Christ
Rebuke:
1) to show honour to, to honour
2) to raise the price of
3) to adjudge, award, in the sense of merited penalty
4) to tax with fault, rate, chide, rebuke, reprove, censure severely
a) to admonish or charge sharpl
Actually it really should be "on honor" since that is the 2 words it is taken from. Is that "judging"? No. It is a delicate use of the term to show the error of one's way, being out of line with God's Way. In doing so, using scripture helps prove the point.
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
And this is the point I was trying to make on the other thread. You are never commanded to judge. You are commanded to rebuke.. See the difference?
To discuss twisting scripture so you can continue to judge instead of love others on the pretext that you are loving them is spiritual abuse that is no different than a physical abuser who claims he loves, IMO. To believe you can understand scripture written by so many so far removed from our modern existence without understanding how our human mind understands things is beyond presumptuous. The differences in the way 1st century minds, 10th century minds, 14th century minds, 16th century minds, 18, 19, 20 and 21st century minds understand things is so VAST that to so cruelly judge others pretending to love them is a dangerous sin of pride and self-righteousness, IMO. When the language differences and many translations are thrown into the mix . . . the ridiculousness and hypocrisy of this judging is beyond the pale.
To want to judge others is a strong motive in humans . . . to take it to the extreme of chasing someone away from God to yield to that desire is a fruit born of Satan . . . not Jesus, IMO. Acceptance allows Jesus and the holy spirit to decide whether or not someone is worthy of the kingdom . . . not flawed and judging humans with no understanding of even how THEY understand things . . . let alone how so many different generations and cultures understood things. It is ALL based on simplistic and simple-minded literal interpretations and reading of scriptures originally written for vastly different human minds! Talk about twisting scripture!
Scripture is for OUR personal understanding and edification according to OUR personal capabilities to understand guided by the holy spirit and love of Jesus. Unless you believe you have become a personally chosen disciple of Jesus (as the apostles were) and been given infallible judgment from the holy spirit . . . you have no right to transfer YOUR understanding (which is geared to YOUR mental capabilities) to judge anyone else's relationship with Jesus and the holy spirit. There will be a special fate for those who prevent ANYONE from coming to Jesus based on THEIR understanding . . . because that takes the judgment away from God and Jesus and places it in human hands. Get thee behind me, Satan!
It takes far more confidence than I have in one's superior understanding and righteousness with the Lord to take such a judgmental task and burden on . . . instead of just witnessing and urging others to meet Jesus and let the holy spirit do its work. Blocking access to Jesus using human rules and qualifications supposedly gleaned using fallible human minds will not be looked upon kindly by Jesus, IMO. So go ahed . . . keep indulging your desire to be self-righteous judges of others . . . I will let Jesus, God and the holy spirit do that task. I simply seek to bring others to them.
(Go ahead and complain about the lack of scripture, Fundy . . . if it makes you feel better in your judgmental tasks.)
The problem of "twisting of scriptures argument" I have is that this is the usual ammo of any religion, be it LDS, JW's, Islam, Jewish or Christian.
Take for example baptism, some say it saves, others do not. Both can not be correct, therefore each can claim that the other is twisting something out of context. What if each claims that they learned that position from "theology 101"?
I was told once that from whatever roots you come from will influence on how your understanding and reading of the Bible will be. If you come from a works faith based you're more likely to zero in on those types of passages like Philippians 2:12 and will ignore passages like Ephesians 2:9
How can one read hell is eternal, tormenting and everlasting without parole and others opposite? Somebody is twisting, but whom? Some say all roads lead to heaven, others believe one road or that not believing in the trinity isn't essential. The fact is the farther away in years we get from when it was first spoken, the more polluted it becomes. This is why Jesus says that the days will be shortened for the very elect would fall if it were possible. I do hope it comes sooner than later.
To discuss twisting scripture so you can continue to judge instead of love others on the pretext that you are loving them is spiritual abuse that is no different than a physical abuser who claims he loves, IMO. To believe you can understand scripture written by so many so far removed from our modern existence without understanding how our human mind understands things is beyond presumptuous. The differences in the way 1st century minds, 10th century minds, 14th century minds, 16th century minds, 18, 19, 20 and 21st century minds understand things is so VAST that to so cruelly judge others pretending to love them is a dangerous sin of pride and self-righteousness, IMO. When the language differences and many translations are thrown into the mix . . . the ridiculousness and hypocrisy of this judging is beyond the pale.
To want to judge others is a strong motive in humans . . . to take it to the extreme of chasing someone away from God to yield to that desire is a fruit born of Satan . . . not Jesus, IMO. Acceptance allows Jesus and the holy spirit to decide whether or not someone is worthy of the kingdom . . . not flawed and judging humans with no understanding of even how THEY understand things . . . let alone how so many different generations and cultures understood things. It is ALL based on simplistic and simple-minded literal interpretations and reading of scriptures originally written for vastly different human minds! Talk about twisting scripture!
Scripture is for OUR personal understanding and edification according to OUR personal capabilities to understand guided by the holy spirit and love of Jesus. Unless you believe you have become a personally chosen disciple of Jesus (as the apostles were) and been given infallible judgment from the holy spirit . . . you have no right to transfer YOUR understanding (which is geared to YOUR mental capabilities) to judge anyone else's relationship with Jesus and the holy spirit. There will be a special fate for those who prevent ANYONE from coming to Jesus based on THEIR understanding . . . because that takes the judgment away from God and Jesus and places it in human hands. Get thee behind me, Satan!
It takes far more confidence than I have in one's superior understanding and righteousness with the Lord to take such a judgmental task and burden on . . . instead of just witnessing and urging others to meet Jesus and let the holy spirit do its work. Blocking access to Jesus using human rules and qualifications supposedly gleaned using fallible human minds will not be looked upon kindly by Jesus, IMO. So go ahed . . . keep indulging your desire to be self-righteous judges of others . . . I will let Jesus, God and the holy spirit do that task. I simply seek to bring others to them.
(Go ahead and complain about the lack of scripture, Fundy . . . if it makes you feel better in your judgmental tasks.)
Amen!!! I love how your posts bring me further insights. Such intellect, schooling, and skillful writing.
And it is easy to see that the Spirit is talking through yours, in your posts, as well.
To discuss twisting scripture so you can continue to judge instead of love others on the pretext that you are loving them is spiritual abuse that is no different than a physical abuser who claims he loves, IMO. To believe you can understand scripture written by so many so far removed from our modern existence without understanding how our human mind understands things is beyond presumptuous. The differences in the way 1st century minds, 10th century minds, 14th century minds, 16th century minds, 18, 19, 20 and 21st century minds understand things is so VAST that to so cruelly judge others pretending to love them is a dangerous sin of pride and self-righteousness, IMO. When the language differences and many translations are thrown into the mix . . . the ridiculousness and hypocrisy of this judging is beyond the pale.
To want to judge others is a strong motive in humans . . . to take it to the extreme of chasing someone away from God to yield to that desire is a fruit born of Satan . . . not Jesus, IMO. Unconditional acceptance allows Jesus and the holy spirit to decide whether or not someone is worthy of the kingdom . . . not flawed and judging humans with no understanding of even how THEY understand things . . . let alone how so many different generations and cultures understood things. Such arrogance is ALL based on simplistic and simple-minded literal interpretations and reading of scriptures originally written for vastly different human minds! Talk about twisting scripture!
Scripture is for OUR personal understanding and edification according to OUR personal capabilities to understand guided by the holy spirit and love of Jesus. Unless you believe you have become a personally chosen disciple of Jesus (as the apostles were) and been given infallible judgment from the holy spirit . . . you have no right to transfer YOUR understanding (which is geared to YOUR mental capabilities) to judge anyone else's relationship with Jesus and the holy spirit. I believe there will be a special fate for those who prevent ANYONE from coming to Jesus based on THEIR understanding . . . because that takes the judgment away from God and Jesus and places it in human hands. Get thee behind me, Satan!
It takes far more confidence than I have in one's superior understanding and righteousness with the Lord to take such a judgmental task and burden on . . . instead of just witnessing and urging others to meet Jesus and let the holy spirit do its work. Blocking access to Jesus using human rules and qualifications supposedly gleaned using fallible human minds will not be looked upon kindly by Jesus, IMO. So go ahead . . . keep indulging your desire to be self-righteous judges of others . . . I will let Jesus, God and the holy spirit do that task. I simply seek to bring others to them.
(Go ahead and complain about the lack of scripture, Fundy . . . if it makes you feel better in your judgmental tasks.)
Again no scripture to back up what you are saying.
Lovely! I heartily agree. While it is true we should not JUDGE our brother, we must judge their actions and also how we respond to those actions. It's commanded. Repping you now...
Regarding judgement, it is essential that we understand
who judges whom.
"GRRR..."
"Grrr..." is the sound you are likely to hear from a sleeping dog when his sleep is being disturbed --and "grrr" is the common response of slumbering churchmen when they are rebuked for their disobedience to God.
They are comfortable in their sinful condition and do not want to be disturbed; so, they bare their teeth with a hypocritical smile and snarl: "we are not supposed to judge."
That trite response comes from these words of Jesus wrested from their context:
"Judge not, that you be not judged."
When the subject of judging comes up, we need to consider what Jesus meant by his words when he said them. He did not mean that no one is ever supposed to judge; but rather, he is telling hypocrites that they must first repent of their sins before they are qualified to judge others ...
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? **You hypocrite, FIRST take the log out of your own eye, AND THEN you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.** Matt 7:1-5 (RSV)
Jesus shows us that we must first judge ourselves (lest we be judged). Then, those who have repented of their sins are able to judge their BROTHERS!
The apostle Paul tells us that sinners within the church must be judged --BUT WE ARE NOT TO JUDGE THOSE OUTSIDE THE CHURCH.
"I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I {did} not at all {mean} with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters; for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any SO-CALLED BROTHER if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- NOT EVEN TO EAT WITH SUCH A ONE.
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within {the church} But those who are outside, God judges REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES."
1 Cor 5:9-13 (NAS)
Those words were spoken by an apostle; and with that authority, we are taught: anyone who is committing sin (and will not repent or accept correction) is a "so-called brother" that must be put out of the church. Yet, examples abound of churchmen who publicly demonstrate against the sins of the world and ignore gross sins within their own assemblies.
Furthermore, many Christians are not only judging the wrong people, they are also making false judgments every time they JUSTIFY a so-called brother who knowingly commits sin. Think about it. A judgment is made when a law-breaker is told that he has no condemnation and is righteous in God's sight because of his "faith".
If those people are saying: "we are not supposed to judge", then, why are they making judgments that justify evil-doers by calling them righteous in God's sight? That kind of judgment makes a mockery of justice and is a diabolical deception. The apostle John warns us not to be deceived by people like that:
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is righteous, even as he is righteous." I Jn 3:7 (KJV)
Friends, the church is in apostasy and has no hope of revival until it learns WHO IS TO JUDGE WHOM and until it uses The Ten Commandments (The law that defines sin.) as the standard for judgment. (Matt 19:17-19; James 2:10)
The persecuted Hebrew Christians were told not to stop associating with each other --even though it placed their lives in danger. They needed to warn one another of the terrible judgment reserved for a believer who betrays Jesus. (WE BETRAY JESUS WHEN WE REFUSE TO STOP
SINNING AND DELIBERATELY DO WHAT WE KNOW IS WRONG.)
In the book of Hebrews, we read:
"And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: **Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together**, as the manner of some is; but EXHORTING ONE ANOTHER: and so much the
more, as ye see the day approaching. FOR IF WE SIN WILFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE
TRUTH, THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." Heb 10:24-27 (KJV)
Considering the dreadful consequences of willful sin, when a brother corrects us for disobeying one of The Ten Commandments, we should never "growl" but say "thank you!". That is why the proverbs say: "...rebuke a wise man and he will love thee."
Is there scripture that says that we should take scripture in context?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
