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Yes it purely hypothetical, at least for me, but this man was sincere when he spoke the words. So take out that variable. Now please answer. (not trying to sound condescending here, just comes off that way.)
I recommend two passages. Study, pray and meditate on the Word. May God help us all to see how these two lessons fit into God's will.
I am of the "once saved always saved bunch" but that is not what it means. When you are saved you bear fruit, bearing fruit is not going out and murder.
It's interesting that "osas" would come to be one of the objects of a statement. Also that one would focus on the word "magic" and bring that to mean sorcery.
To me, when this is said to me, I invision several thought camps that one could be coming from and depending upon the direction would bring about a response. For my own experience, when this is said, I find that a statement comes from a view that forgiveness, grace or God's favor is conditional upon my actions. Or in other words, the balance between the law and gospel.
Does one conclude such if these passages in that light...
Romans 6:1
[ Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ ] What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
Hebrews 10:26
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left
1 John 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
How many here who live for him really believe that 1 John 3:6 means what it says? Is a charge of a magic prayer based on that verse?
Big difference between falling into sin as opposed to diving into sin. If my wife and I (devoted die to self Christians) had a huge argument, I lose my temper cussed at her even blasphemed God's name, stormed out of the house, got in my car and ran a stop sign only to be broad sided by a semi killing me instantly. I am not going to heaven?
I understand what you mean. Many years ago a man once said to me that if his car would go off a very high bridge, he would pray for forgiveness for all the sins he could remember before impact.
Needless to say, I really felt sorry for the man. Living in a state of uncertainty was foreign to my thinking. I thought, what if I hit water before I could ask forgiveness about everything? what if I had enough time but I forgot something, does God still condemn? What if I cursed or thought sinfully as I was falling to my death?
Then it was pointed out to me...if that was true, then why did Jesus pray if it was possible to have this cup passed? What purpose did Jesus endure all the punishment of hell on the cross? What was in the cup that made it so bitter that Jesus asked if there was a different way to satisfy Gods anger, three different times?
His answer....my sins.
Last edited by twin.spin; 01-30-2009 at 10:27 PM..
My parents live by the "no matter what I do I will be saved" rule.
My mother is so devout that she went by a woman that was having a heart attack so she would not miss church.
My father use to be an assistant minister. Most Sundays, on the way home from church he would swear his head off, occasionally beating my mother in the car. He loves to pick fights with people that are helpless, often terrorizing waitresses and the like.
Now the jerk is a chaplain. He sent me one of those e-mails about Jesus being your lawyer when you die. Some people might be familiar with that one.
Anyway, after 47 years, I went ballistic on him. I sent back a nasty e-mail that said that I remember every darn thing that he ever did and if he doesn't leave me alone I would find the nursing home where he is a chaplain and tell them who he truly is. That was November and I haven't heard from him since.
Truly, my parents have affected my entire outlook of Christianity and I just can't shake it. I have tried many denominations but it has never worked for me.
To believe that you can do whatever you want and still be saved is absolutely ridiculous. I am now an agnostic and I would feed and clothe and shelter anyone and have. The only denomination that seems to get it right to a huge degree is the Catholics.
But after so many years I finally came to the realization that religion is ridiculous. God is perfect, right? So how come he created imperfect people? And if he did, couldn't he just fix them? Instead he had to send his Son to teach us a lesson?
It makes no sense to me.
Folks, I have just poured my heart out. Please do not lash out at me. Thanks in advance.
You shouldn't be lashed out at. I haven't been through what you have, but we do have similarities.
I had to let go of denominations. I found that God is my only Shepard. He tends me.
That isn't to say that I am against churches...and that doesn't mean that I do not meet with other believers.
I feel for you, Hik...
Thank you.
I can remember, when I was very young, my mother telling me the story of Abraham being willing to sacrifice his son and her stressing that she put God before all others, even me. I was in tears begging her to put me first.
It amazes me that their actions finally forced me to REALLY look at Christianity and realize that it is a ridiculous premise. It took me 47 years to finally wake up to this. I so wanted to believe.
My apologies to all that believe. I respect your convictions.
Big difference between falling into sin as opposed to diving into sin. If my wife and I (devoted die to self Christians) had a huge argument, I lose my temper cussed at her even blasphemed God's name, stormed out of the house, got in my car and ran a stop sign only to be broad sided by a semi killing me instantly. I am not going to heaven?
Heaven is a big place. There are degrees of glory.
One can know what degree they shall inherit at any given moment of the day.
Death changes no one, when one dies, they take all their weaknesses and strengths with them. If they are liars they will be liars still, if they are kind, they will be kind still. If they are addicted to cigarettes they will still have the craving until overcome. The physical part will be gone, but the spiritual craving of drugs, alchohol, sex, hate, or the converse, love, peace and kindness will all still exist.
Losing your temper is a learned pattern, that has it's limits ofcourse, but it is the pattern that is acceptable at that point in one's life, and if you die and cross over, you will still have that pattern to deal with. It just takes a lot longer to overcome it.
My parents live by the "no matter what I do I will be saved" rule.
My mother is so devout that she went by a woman that was having a heart attack so she would not miss church.
My father use to be an assistant minister. Most Sundays, on the way home from church he would swear his head off, occasionally beating my mother in the car. He loves to pick fights with people that are helpless, often terrorizing waitresses and the like.
Now the jerk is a chaplain. He sent me one of those e-mails about Jesus being your lawyer when you die. Some people might be familiar with that one.
Anyway, after 47 years, I went ballistic on him. I sent back a nasty e-mail that said that I remember every darn thing that he ever did and if he doesn't leave me alone I would find the nursing home where he is a chaplain and tell them who he truly is. That was November and I haven't heard from him since.
Truly, my parents have affected my entire outlook of Christianity and I just can't shake it. I have tried many denominations but it has never worked for me.
To believe that you can do whatever you want and still be saved is absolutely ridiculous. I am now an agnostic and I would feed and clothe and shelter anyone and have. The only denomination that seems to get it right to a huge degree is the Catholics.
But after so many years I finally came to the realization that religion is ridiculous. God is perfect, right? So how come he created imperfect people? And if he did, couldn't he just fix them? Instead he had to send his Son to teach us a lesson?
It makes no sense to me.
Folks, I have just poured my heart out. Please do not lash out at me. Thanks in advance.
Your experience is not uncommon. The outward Churchianity has turned God into a monster. Not someone worthy of a moment of our time.
I think it comes from us looking to others to see God rather than just going direct and learning to hear His voice. The quiet voice that says it's honorable to help those in need. The voice that contains all language without any words, the one that no one can interpret falsely.
godspeed,
freedom
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