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I START with a Quote from a classic, Charles Dickens A Christmas Carol
The scene is set where Scrooge is confronted by a ghost of his deceased partner, Marley, for whom Scrooge sings praise of Marley's ability to run such a successful business whilst alive......
"Oh! captive, bound, and double-ironed," cried the phantom, "not toknow, that ages of incessant labour, by immortal creatures, for this earth must pass into eternity before the good of which it is susceptible is all developed. Not to know that any Christian spirit working kindly in its little sphere, whatever it may be, will find its mortal life too short for its vast means of usefulness. Not to know that no space of regret can make amends for one life's opportunity misused! Yet such was I! Oh! such was I!" "But you were always a good man of business, Jacob," faltered Scrooge, who now began to apply this to himself. "Business!" cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. "Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
I post this now because I want to make commentary on a similar thread posted by one of the other great posters herein
Years ago, when Living in the Southwest, when younger, more optimistic and more idealized, I asked at a church where I was attending , why there was no great charitable works undertaken by the congregation to improve the lot of others in the world around them.
The responses I got were very disturbing, and I will paraphrase here
"I don;t help others I help myself" (Selfishness)
I am trying to get everything I can (greed)
But most disturbing of all were several individuals, who had the opinion that the purpose of life was only to accept Jesus and go to heaven. According to them, Charitable deeds and good works are not required for entry to heaven, therefore why would we waste time or feel obligated to do such?
In otherwords, "I don't Have to"
I guess some people only do in life what they "have " to do
That must be a miserable way to run one's life. And I cannot see supporting any movement , religous or otherwise, that cannot make a positive impact in the world.
When I suggested to some church members that maybe would should organize a used clothing drive for a local homeless shelter, their response collectively was "WHY?That's not our problem....."
Well, seeing the quote above IT IS our problem. Mankind, suffering, the human experience, all oare our business and our call to make the world a better place. All of us.
I remember once seeing a sign of being a winner vs being a loser. On the side of the loser was "The loser says 'It is not my problem'" whereas ..."The Winner says 'Here let me help'"
Now I have long since left "religion" I don't do memberships, I don't do causes or movements BUT I do contribute to charity and I do help out where I can. Interesting, because to this day the words and the attitude of several (many) followers in Texas still remind me of "Me first" or "What's in it for me?" when I pick up a few extra groceries for a neighbor who lives on a fixed income or I pick up an extra book to give to a kid or donate to the library, or when I toss some clothes I picked up off the clearance rack into the Goodwill bin. Someone would say "You don't Have to do that." My response is "Yeah Right I don't Have to I CHOOSE to, so why don't you?" give me a good reason NOT to help another human being and I will consider not doing it.
I still have family in Texas. My son and I were setting up to spend a morning helping to convert an old office into art gallery space. He asked "Are we getting paid for this?" Well, clearly, he had been talking to his grandfather in Texas, which yes was where he said he heard it.
I explained that the payment comes in form of the contribution to society, how people's lives will be enriched by what we are doing; how our example will hopefully inspire others to get involved, and how we are not doing this for our glorym but for the pure sake of making our community a little more fun and a little more cultured. And that will have a great impact when it inspires and challenges others.
Too bad though, many people see only money, themselves and no one else. And although I don't do religion, if I did, I could never choose one that does not work to make the world around them a better place.
THE GREAT THING IS we don't NEED religion to make the world a better place. We need people to think of those around them and do what they can, anything at all, using their talents and abilities, to enrich the lives of others and little by litte, family by family and neighborhood by neighborhood, make the world better.
As an atheist, I make donations without religious reasons -- United Way, American Red Cross, ... They are well-known "brands", because I have heard about the good works they have done. If they have lots of ties to Christian organizations or any other religious organizations, I would not hesitate at all. That's what most people do, for human reasons.
Your points are valid in certain respects that religions use things like "heaven" to attract followers, then it did not start at the right foot. Did it gather all the people who just want to go to "heaven" for selfish reasons?
Good deeds do not equal good people. Good people doing good deeds does not equal eternal salvation. Accepting Jesus Christ as Savior and living like He commanded equals eternal salvation. So I guess the shift swing in the Christianity sub-forum today is to be bombarded by atheists trying to paint all Christians as selfish. That's original.
Good deeds are just that....good deeds. Without Jesus Christ all works are dead. With Jesus Christ, good works must be a part of our salvation or there is no true salvation. Your experience with church members seems exaggerated and untrue. But let's just say for the sake of argument that it is true. Those people professing to be Christians who say such things are not Christians. There are plenty of people sitting in pews in many churches that are there to impress a person or persons, out of obligation, or to put on a false front to make themselves appear to be something they are not. They are not there for God. They do not know God.
It serves no purpose for these threads to be started in a Christianity forum except to cause strife and try to upset the apple cart. Not gonna happen. If one is not being led by light, then they are being led by darkness. There are only two sides to this spiritual battle.
There are also the lukewarm in this experience that will find any way possible to demean good works as wrong.
If one is led to help their fellow man, and do good they are operating by the power of Christ, whether they say His Holy name or not, it is written on their hearts to do the will of God.
No one in darkness can do good for the benefit of darkness. Helping others from a contrite and open heart is an act of Light.
Some will not take on the name of Christian because it has been defiled by hypocrisy and false teaching.
Let the unspoken name of Christ show itself by letting one's light shine. Loving, giving and sharing with others while meeting their temporal needs and touching their spiritual hearts.
Man's doctrine is a stumbling block to the massess that just say Lord, Lord...
He will say be gone from me, i never knew you. Ye that worketh iniquity.
I’ll add…
One shouldn’t confuse church membership as being a relationship with Jesus.
God doesn’t care so much about membership in man’s organizations – only that your name is written in the Lamb’s book of life.
The concept that ‘good’ people go to heaven and ‘bad’ people go to hell - is a LIE which could be politely labeled as a "misconception".
No one measures up as being worthy of heaven.
Good works do not tally as sufficient.
There is only one way, and that is trusting in the righteousness of Christ - and applying His death as done in your stead.
Applied with a sincere heart and just a tiny bit of faith, one can turn a belief that God MIGHT exist into a relationship with Him and a changed life.
Not a life where you are turned into that which you may now despise, but a life enriched by knowing the author of life.
Good deeds are always good and sin is always bad, but keep this in mind:
(The first verse has been overused to the point of seeming trite, but read on to the next two verses.)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:16-18
In other words: Specific sins don't send a person to hell, but not believing in the Lamb of God.
You can change your default destination, and you don’t need a church to do it.
"If" Jesus is who He said He is, it'd be foolish not to at least seek to find out.
Good deeds do not equal good people. Good people doing good deeds does not equal eternal salvation. Accepting Jesus Christ as Savior and living like He commanded equals eternal salvation. So I guess the shift swing in the Christianity sub-forum today is to be bombarded by atheists trying to paint all Christians as selfish. That's original.
Good deeds are just that....good deeds. Without Jesus Christ all works are dead. With Jesus Christ, good works must be a part of our salvation or there is no true salvation. Your experience with church members seems exaggerated and untrue. But let's just say for the sake of argument that it is true. Those people professing to be Christians who say such things are not Christians. There are plenty of people sitting in pews in many churches that are there to impress a person or persons, out of obligation, or to put on a false front to make themselves appear to be something they are not. They are not there for God. They do not know God.
It serves no purpose for these threads to be started in a Christianity forum except to cause strife and try to upset the apple cart. Not gonna happen. If one is not being led by light, then they are being led by darkness. There are only two sides to this spiritual battle.
I couldn't have said it any better, I have not been in a church that dosn't have a program, canned food drive, clothing, supporting missionary. Sure there will be those who dont contribute and if they do they choose to not be known. so before you post another look at me see how proud and Good I am with all my good deeds, I dont need Jesus or a God. Well good for you, but doing good deeds dosnt earn your way to Heaven. there are some who are practicng Christians and those who are just sunday goers. Perhaps you cannot tell the differnce, and you based your way of life on sunday goers and of the good people of Texas. A good Christian would of chosen to forgive there weaker brothers and sisters and would have prayed for them.
Mat 6:3 "But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
The "church" should be equivalent to a hospital.............where the sick and broken are welcome. Jesus is the "life insurance" that's guaranteed!
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A good Christian would of chosen to forgive there weaker brothers and sisters and would have prayed for them. 
