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Eusebius how how do you explain repentance and faith because this is a gigantic obstacle for us to get around. How can one get to heaven without repenting?
That is a very good question.
All one needs to get to heaven is to be born poor as snot like Lazarus in the Rich man and Lazarus story and receive evil things in this life (Abraham said so). You don't even need Christ.
If you aren't poor enough you can also just go over to Israel and give a cup of water to one of Christ's brethren or visit one of His brethren in jail or clothe one of them you are a shoe-in for heaven. You don't need Christ according to Matthew 25:31-46.
But really, how can one get to heaven without repenting? If you study Paul's gospel to the nations you will note that repentance is not a necessary requirement for the nations to be saved. But if you read the Circumcision writings to the Jews repentance is a requirement.
It is only after one is saved under Paul's gospel/evangel that if one does something egregiously Paul asks such a one to repent. But this repentance is not to be saved since they are already saved. It is to have a change of mind over what they were doing wrongly.
Now then, what about all the rest of mankind? What about the Jews who never repent? They miss out on the 1000 year kingdom to come. And they quite possibly will miss out on living on the new earth.
What about the rest of mankind who God does not give any faith to? They too will miss out on the 1000 year long kingdom to come and quite possibly miss out on the new earth age.
The only thing that separates them from us is that God gave us faith to be believing. It is a gracious, gratuitous gift.
What is God going to do to make all the non-repenters and non believers fit for His holy presence? Romans 5:18 and 19 shows a partial picture. He is going to MAKE them righteous and justify their lives all thanks to Christ's righteous act.
All one needs to get to heaven is to be born poor as snot like Lazarus in the Rich man and Lazarus story and receive evil things in this life (Abraham said so). You don't even need Christ.
If you aren't poor enough you can also just go over to Israel and give a cup of water to one of Christ's brethren or visit one of His brethren in jail or clothe one of them you are a shoe-in for heaven. You don't need Christ according to Matthew 25:31-46.
Is this a serious response or are you being tongue-in-cheek? I don't mean to be rude, it's just hard to tell.
By that I mean, do you believe the rules for getting to heaven differ by the size of one's bank account? Do you think one literally goes to Israel and gives a glass of water to some guy on the street and *poof* a one-way ticket, non-stop to Kingdom Come?
If I give said water to a person in Seattle (let's even say a brethren of Christ, though I don't know who but Christ could make such an assessment) , I am not in?
Eusebius how how do you explain repentance and faith because this is a gigantic obstacle for us to get around. How can one get to heaven without repenting?
You can't . . . but what IS repenting, Fundy? It is a change in your "state of mind" in remorse for those things you did that you know you should not have. It reflects a replaying of the prior acts with a new "state of mind" in "love of God and each other." It has nothing to do with external proclamations or rituals or memberships in exclusive clubs or churches. It is the acceptance of the Holy Spirit's promptings (conscience) and guidance for our lives, period.
You can't . . . but what IS repenting, Fundy? It is a change in your "state of mind" in remorse for those things you did that you know you should not have. It reflects a replaying of the prior acts with a new "state of mind" in "love of God and each other." It has nothing to do with external proclamations or rituals or memberships in exclusive clubs or churches. It is the acceptance of the Holy Spirit's promptings (conscience) and guidance for our lives, period.
Obviously that is what scripture says. I follow scripture, nothing else. The exclusive club is called "heaven". In fact this is what it reads on the invitation
"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 05-01-2009 at 06:24 AM..
All one needs to get to heaven is to be born poor as snot like Lazarus in the Rich man and Lazarus story and receive evil things in this life (Abraham said so). You don't even need Christ.
If you aren't poor enough you can also just go over to Israel and give a cup of water to one of Christ's brethren or visit one of His brethren in jail or clothe one of them you are a shoe-in for heaven. You don't need Christ according to Matthew 25:31-46.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly
Is this a serious response or are you being tongue-in-cheek? I don't mean to be rude, it's just hard to tell.
No, it was not a serious response. The Serious respone was after the words: "But really . . . ."
Obviously that is what scripture says. I follow scripture, nothing else. The exclusive club is called "heaven". In fact this is what it reads on the invitation
"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
Dear Fundamentalist, did I answer your question?
Also, we believe Jesus is the way, truth and life and that no one can come to the Father but through Jesus.
This is why all mankind eventually will be saved because they all come through Jesus' righteous act on the cross.
I am curious when you are going to start being obedient to the One you call "Lord"? He specifically tells you to charge and teach that God is the Saviour of all mankind (1 Tim.4:10,11) and that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all (1 Tim.2:4-6). Is today the day you begin?
Also, we believe Jesus is the way, truth and life and that no one can come to the Father but through Jesus.
This is why all mankind eventually will be saved because they all come through Jesus' righteous act on the cross.
I am curious when you are going to start being obedient to the One you call "Lord"? He specifically tells you to charge and teach that God is the Saviour of all mankind (1 Tim.4:10,11) and that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all (1 Tim.2:4-6). Is today the day you begin?
Yes you believe that in the next life. I see no such scripture to show we can do that in the next life? sorry but that is assumption on a universalist part and I am not going to gamble my salvation on your assumption.
Yes you believe that in the next life. I see no such scripture to show we can do that in the next life? sorry but that is assumption on a universalist part and I am not going to gamble my salvation on your assumption.
Likewise there is no scripture stating there won't be repentance in the so-called "next life."
What ever is required, Fundamentalist, God has met the requirements to save all mankind.
Christ ransomed all mankind. That is what 1 Timothy 2:6 says. Based upon that, God will save all mankind (1 Timothy 2:4).
1 Timothy 2:4-6 does not say that "God will save all mankind IF "all mankind repents." Rather it says "God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all mankind.
Have you done a complete study on the word "ransom" in the Old and New Testaments yet? If you did you would see that, according to God's law, all animals and all humans that are ransomed MUST BE FREED.
Since all mankind have been ransomed by the GREAT RANSOM, all mankind MUST BE FREED into God's salvation.
Romans 5:18 & 19 does not say that God is going to justify all mankind if they repent. It does state that God is going to justify all mankind due to what Christ did. Likewise it does not state that God is going to make all mankind righteous if they repent but due to what Christ did.
Now will you PLEASE quit being disobedient and begin to do what He tells you to do? He tells you to teach that "God IS the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believer" (1 Tim.4:10,11). He tells you to teach that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all (1 Tim.2:4-6). Will you please start today?
Likewise there is no scripture stating there won't be repentance in the so-called "next life."
What ever is required, Fundamentalist, God has met the requirements to save all mankind.
Christ ransomed all mankind. That is what 1 Timothy 2:6 says. Based upon that, God will save all mankind (1 Timothy 2:4).
1 Timothy 2:4-6 does not say that "God will save all mankind IF "all mankind repents." Rather it says "God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all mankind.
Have you done a complete study on the word "ransom" in the Old and New Testaments yet? If you did you would see that, according to God's law, all animals and all humans that are ransomed MUST BE FREED.
Since all mankind have been ransomed by the GREAT RANSOM, all mankind MUST BE FREED into God's salvation.
Romans 5:18 & 19 does not say that God is going to justify all mankind if they repent. It does state that God is going to justify all mankind due to what Christ did. Likewise it does not state that God is going to make all mankind righteous if they repent but due to what Christ did.
Now will you PLEASE quit being disobedient and begin to do what He tells you to do? He tells you to teach that "God IS the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believer" (1 Tim.4:10,11). He tells you to teach that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all (1 Tim.2:4-6). Will you please start today?
Eusebius
ummmm....yes there is. What is the bible for is if not for the living? so one can conclude that we do what the bible ask in this life. Repenting in the next life is a Huuuuuge assumption based on your part.
I'm guessing you'll just dismiss it outright and won't even read it...but oh well.
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Obviously that is what scripture says. I follow scripture, nothing else. The exclusive club is called "heaven". In fact this is what it reads on the invitation 
