1 Timothy 4:10 ''...Who is the Savior of All men, Especially of Believers.'' It's not what the unversalists think it is. (disciple, translation)
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Originally Posted by Eusebius When you say: "They did not make the right choice" you are in effect saying you made the right choice.
When you say: "They had the chance" you are in effect saying you were presented with a chance and took the chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Nope, you said that, not me. You are the only one here talking about me.
I see. You are either into mind games or you are just a dishonest person.
Finn, I won't play games with you and by your reply you must be a young teen?
You specifically said that "They did not make the right choice." and you said "They had the chance." Now what did you mean by that? Did you mean they didn't make the right choice to be saved and you did not make any choice? Did you mean they had the chance and you didn't have a chance? Gheesh! I hate having to talk to young teens that think life is but a joke.
The word of God says otherwise. The majority of the human race will spend eternity in the lake of fire
Mike, your like Saul to us believers who believe God will be All in All. You need a Damascus encounter yourself, maybe that will change your mind.
So who won the great battle between Good and Evil Mike? The side that got 90% of souls into the lake of fire for all of eternity or the side that was able to save the few, the 10%?
If your theory is correct, evil is victorious over good. You also ignore all the scriptures others are providing.
Unfortunately for them it will be too late, because they did not make the right choice when they had the chance.
Do you really think the flesh is capable of making "right choices" when it has the "chance"?
Here is what we know about the flesh:
Rom 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;
Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.
Rom 8:8 And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.
The flesh cannot receive anything from the Spirit of God to make a "right choice" about:
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
If the flesh could make a "right choice" by "chance" (which it cannot), would you really want it to? The flesh would profit nothing by doing so:
Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit that gives life. The flesh does not profit, nothing! The Words which I speak to you are spirit and are life.
We're directed to put to death the flesh, not let it make decisions and choices for us:
Rom 8:13 for if you live according to flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live.
Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh. That born of the Spirit is Spirit:
Joh 3:6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit. Joh 3:7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
Considering that the flesh, and whatever decisions it makes, will not and cannot see, or inherit the Kingdom of God, should we expect it to?
Mike, your like Saul to us believers who believe God will be All in All. You need a Damascus encounter yourself, maybe that will change your mind.
So who won the great battle between Good and Evil Mike? The side that got 90% of souls into the lake of fire for all of eternity or the side that was able to save the few, the 10%?
If your theory is correct, evil is victorious over good. You also ignore all the scriptures others are providing.
Planning on going to Damascus soon by any chance?
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. Gal. 6:7
From the lips of Jesus Christ Himself;
Matthew 7:13-14 ''Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14) 'For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it.
Matthew 7:21 ''And I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'' (Unbelievers)
Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.''
Matthew 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46) ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in you sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.''
John 3:18 ''He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:28 ''Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, 29) and shall come forth; those who did the good (believers) to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil (unbelievers) to a resurrection of judgment.
John wrote as directed by God the Holy Spirit;
John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (the command to believe) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides (remains) on him.
Revelation 20:15 'And if anyones name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Therefore, the Scriptures themselves testify against those who falsely proclaim that all will be saved. For they shall not.
The word of God says otherwise. The majority of the human race will spend eternity in the lake of fire.
...And the minority will be attending a lamb's wedding. If we take the lake of fire literally which is only mentioned 4 times - once in Rev. 19 and 3 times in Rev. 20, then we have to take literally that we'll be attending a lamb's wedding, which is mentioned in these verses.
It's obvious by now that scripture can be interpreted in different ways. Since we are to worship the true and living God and not the Bible, we should spend at least as much time getting to know Him as getting to know the scriptures. "You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13. In seeking God, we should strive to get to know Him - His Heart - His Love - His Grace - His Mercy. Then, based on the scriptures we have studied that could possibly be interpreted a couple of ways, and based on the God that we now KNOW, we can start to let God reveal to us the true meaning. We have to listen with our heart and not just our head. We have to listen to God's voice deep within our soul. If you're not sure, ask God directly and wait for the answer.
After losing my son after years of praying for him to overcome a disease, I asked God, "WHO ARE YOU? Who are you that you would let a 15-year-old suffer like he did, work hard to get better, only to let him die anyway? I thank you that he's in heaven, but who are you that you would allow someone to live 90 years and be healthy, go to church all their life and "think they were saved," only to die and find out they were never "really" saved and then let them burn forever?" (We are warned of that at our church.) I prayed a truly heart-felt prayer and just wanted to know who He was, because honestly, He hurt my feelings by not answering my prayers and I wasn't sure I knew him after all. Through another serious of events (posted on page 5 of the Letter from Hell thread) God began to show me who He is, and now I love Him even more than ever because I know He IS love and He IS merciful and He will save all people. I simply asked God who he was and I was seeking Him with my whole heart, although a broken one, and God began to show me who He is.
So, don't put your faith only in your interpretation of the scripture or the interpretation you've been taught, but get desperate to know God. If you believe you truly know Him, there's no reason to fear asking Him. Why not, from your heart, ask God, "Lord, is there any reason why I should believe that you will save all people when it's obvious to me that you're going to burn most of them with unending fire? Father, is there any reason why I should believe that your plan is for Jesus' death and resurrection to pay for the sins of everyone who has ever lived, and not just the ones who pray the sinner's prayer? (Or fill in the blank with what you've been taught is required for salvation - baptism, more good deeds than bad deeds, no unconfessed sin at time of death, etc.)
...And the minority will be attending a lamb's wedding. If we take the lake of fire literally which is only mentioned 4 times - once in Rev. 19 and 3 times in Rev. 20, then we have to take literally that we'll be attending a lamb's wedding, which is mentioned in these verses.
It's obvious by now that scripture can be interpreted in different ways. Since we are to worship the true and living God and not the Bible, we should spend at least as much time getting to know Him as getting to know the scriptures. "You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13. In seeking God, we should strive to get to know Him - His Heart - His Love - His Grace - His Mercy. Then, based on the scriptures we have studied that could possibly be interpreted a couple of ways, and based on the God that we now KNOW, we can start to let God reveal to us the true meaning. We have to listen with our heart and not just our head. We have to listen to God's voice deep within our soul. If you're not sure, ask God directly and wait for the answer.
After losing my son after years of praying for him to overcome a disease, I asked God, "WHO ARE YOU? Who are you that you would let a 15-year-old suffer like he did, work hard to get better, only to let him die anyway? I thank you that he's in heaven, but who are you that you would allow someone to live 90 years and be healthy, go to church all their life and "think they were saved," only to die and find out they were never "really" saved and then let them burn forever?" (We are warned of that at our church.) I prayed a truly heart-felt prayer and just wanted to know who He was, because honestly, He hurt my feelings by not answering my prayers and I wasn't sure I knew him after all. Through another serious of events (posted on page 5 of the Letter from Hell thread) God began to show me who He is, and now I love Him even more than ever because I know He IS love and He IS merciful and He will save all people. I simply asked God who he was and I was seeking Him with my whole heart, although a broken one, and God began to show me who He is.
So, don't put your faith only in your interpretation of the scripture or the interpretation you've been taught, but get desperate to know God. If you believe you truly know Him, there's no reason to fear asking Him. Why not, from your heart, ask God, "Lord, is there any reason why I should believe that you will save all people when it's obvious to me that you're going to burn most of them with unending fire? Father, is there any reason why I should believe that your plan is for Jesus' death and resurrection to pay for the sins of everyone who has ever lived, and not just the ones who pray the sinner's prayer? (Or fill in the blank with what you've been taught is required for salvation - baptism, more good deeds than bad deeds, no unconfessed sin at time of death, etc.)
Your feelings have led you astray.
Reality is what it is. The Scriptures have been given that declare, and from Jesus Himself, that those who die without Christ are destined for the eternal lake of fire.
I just posted a thread on the churches wedding to Christ who is the Lamb of God.
Thank you for sharing that about your son. It really touched me. And what a beautiful testament to read the way in which God touched your heart and showed you His true character.
Your words were a real blessing to me.
Mike, your like Saul to us believers who believe God will be All in All. You need a Damascus encounter yourself, maybe that will change your mind.
So who won the great battle between Good and Evil Mike? The side that got 90% of souls into the lake of fire for all of eternity or the side that was able to save the few, the 10%?
If your theory is correct, evil is victorious over good. You also ignore all the scriptures others are providing.
Planning on going to Damascus soon by any chance?
How can there be a battle between Good and Evil when Satan can only do what God allows Him to do...look at Job for instance...Looks to me like God IS in control even of the Evil One...
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. Gal. 6:7
From the lips of Jesus Christ Himself;
Matthew 7:13-14 ''Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14) 'For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it.
Matthew 7:21 ''And I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'' (Unbelievers)
Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.''
Matthew 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46) ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in you sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.''
John 3:18 ''He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:28 ''Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, 29) and shall come forth; those who did the good (believers) to a resurrection of life,those who committed the evil (unbelievers) to a resurrection of judgment.
John wrote as directed by God the Holy Spirit;
John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (the command to believe) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides (remains) on him.
Revelation 20:15 'And if anyones name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Therefore, the Scriptures themselves testify against those who falsely proclaim that all will be saved. For they shall not.
There ya go...what is a resurrection?...it is being made alive...So, yes, in Adam all died and in Christ all will be made alive...many UR people believe that the being made alive (Resurrection) part means Eternal life...Because of Christ all ARE resurrected, but out of that mass of resurrected are seperated those that had believed on Him for Eternal Life while in the mortal flesh...the others are Judged according to there works because they died under the Law and therefore are Judged by the Law...and as Paul said "by the Law no flesh shall be saved"...
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. Gal. 6:7
From the lips of Jesus Christ Himself;
Matthew 7:13-14 ''Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14) 'For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it.
Matthew 7:21 ''And I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'' (Unbelievers)
Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.''
Matthew 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46) ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in you sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.''
John 3:18 ''He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:28 ''Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, 29) and shall come forth; those who did the good (believers) to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil (unbelievers) to a resurrection of judgment.
John wrote as directed by God the Holy Spirit;
John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (the command to believe) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides (remains) on him.
Revelation 20:15 'And if anyones name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Therefore, the Scriptures themselves testify against those who falsely proclaim that all will be saved. For they shall not.
Mike, it's time to believe the full truth of God. Did not Jesus tell Paul that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6)? Did not Jesus tell Paul that "God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially (not exclusively) of them that believe. THESE THINGS COMMAND AND TEACH" (1 Tim.4:10)?
Did not Jesus tell Paul that all mankind will have their lives justified and all mankind will be made righteous due to what He did for them (Romans 5:18,19)?
Did not Jesus tell Paul that the believers will have an administration to head up all in Him in the heavens and on the earth (Ephesians 1:9)?
So, Mike, all the verses you quote Jesus saying BEFORE He talked to Paul should not contradict Jesus's later truths to Paul. The later truths are just as true as the earlier ones. The thing is that you have to figure out how to make both sets of truths work. Here's a hint: Jesus never used the word "eternal" or "everlasting."
It's time, Mike. It's time to believe the whole story, not just part of it.
Are you ready to take the leap of faith and believe God, Mike? Mike, it's time.
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