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I agree with a good portion of the creed that you posted. The section later highlighted by Irishmom is of course the clincher. Not just in the use of the word "catholic" -- I do know that means "universal", but in that it would appear that baptism means salvation. (We use Body of Christ to denote the "church".)
We believe that baptism follows salvation and the following is what I and the Southern Baptist Convention believe about salvation -- which is where Christianity begins in anyone:
IV. Salvation
Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification. There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.
A. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.
Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour.
B. Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.
C. Sanctification is the experience, beginning in regeneration, by which the believer is set apart to God's purposes, and is enabled to progress toward moral and spiritual maturity through the presence and power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Growth in grace should continue throughout the regenerate person's life.
D. Glorification is the culmination of salvation and is the final blessed and abiding state of the redeemed.
The way I read it in the creed Catholic was always uppercased which refers directly to the Catholic church. The lowercase "c" refers to the universal church. In CCD (catechism) we were taught that Catholics were the only ones headed to heaven, because we belonged to the Catholic church. AND, if you died or were killed while inside the physical church building you were guaranteed a spot in heaven. Unfortunately I am not making any of this up, contrary to what others may say in defense of the church. However the Catholic church does change its doctrine often enough that maybe my points above are now moot.
I appreciate what you're trying to do here Irish! I think it is great! However, you are going to find it will be very hard for people to stay on topic and only discuss the similarities without pointing out the differences. Sometimes we start threads with the best of intentions and well...we know how a lot of them go from there
I really did think some how that the similarities could be celebrated and the differences be disregarded, but alas I was sooo wrong.
Well JerZ if you are out there your point that we can't seem to agree, as Christians, what to believe is well made now. Again sad and disturbing at the same time.
I really did think some how that the similarities could be celebrated and the differences be disregarded, but alas I was sooo wrong.
Well JerZ if you are out there your point that we can't seem to agree, as Christians, what to believe is well made now. Again sad and disturbing at the same time.
Irish, I don't know how you can expect to find a group of people, christian or otherwise, more in agreement than you have seen in this thread. No one has pointed out anyone else as wrong or misinformed. There has been general agreement in all the points posted with only mention of the minor differences that make different denomonations possible. These differences are mentioned to highlight how despite having differences we are united by a common core truth and that we recognize that.
You have to admit that without the occasional smartcrack this could have been a very boring thread since we did not have any namecalling or vehement retorts. Nothing kills a thread faster than "I think this", "yep", "yeah, me too", "uh-hum", <crickets chirping>..............
I really did think some how that the similarities could be celebrated and the differences be disregarded, but alas I was sooo wrong.
Well JerZ if you are out there your point that we can't seem to agree, as Christians, what to believe is well made now. Again sad and disturbing at the same time.
OOOOHHHHHH IRISH! I wasn't trying to discourage you here!!! I'm so sorry
I think I must have made that sound worse than what I meant. I just didn't want to do what you asked us not to do. I could point out our similarities, but along with some of our similarities are small differences within some of them. For example, we both believe in Baptism. I (Baptist) believe that Baptism is something we do as symbolic once salvation is achieved. It's the putting off of the old person and on with the new and being born again of the Holy Spirit. I believe in Communion, but uh well...we won't go there . I could go on.
Again, Irish...I wasn't trying to rain on your parade or anything. I like what you're trying to do! And it would be great if we could do it...It just seems that everyone wants to go off on a tangent and I have been trying REALLY hard to not fall into it myself. I've been trying to avoid posting if I think it may cause turmoil...I've also been trying to avoid the threads that seem to cause the turmoil Of course, every now and then, I have one of those days where I simply feel like arguing and tend to let it get the best of me.
That being said...keep up the good work IrishMom! I will try my best to contribute what I can as long as I don't see any harm in it...
Location: Milky Way Galaxy,Earth,Northern Hemisphere,North America,USA,Pennsyltucky
795 posts, read 2,804,856 times
Reputation: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_guy
The way I read it in the creed Catholic was always uppercased which refers directly to the Catholic church. The lowercase "c" refers to the universal church. In CCD (catechism) we were taught that Catholics were the only ones headed to heaven, because we belonged to the Catholic church. AND, if you died or were killed while inside the physical church building you were guaranteed a spot in heaven. Unfortunately I am not making any of this up, contrary to what others may say in defense of the church. However the Catholic church does change its doctrine often enough that maybe my points above are now moot.
That was pre-Vatican II. The Apostles Creed, which Catholics (and many Protestants) recite, the word 'catholic' is with the lower case 'c' - meaning 'Universal'.
Separated brethren - Protestants - are fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord, just a separate arm of the Body - the Church.
I manage an MSN Group for Catholic Converts (because I am one). But it's also for those just curious about the teachings of the Catholic Church, for 'Cradle Catholics' and for converts. I was born and raised in the Church of Christ, sang in the Baptist choir for over 20 years - but, God lead me to the Catholic Church.
If you're interested in knowing the url for the Catholic Converts website, PM me, I'll send it to you.
Location: Milky Way Galaxy,Earth,Northern Hemisphere,North America,USA,Pennsyltucky
795 posts, read 2,804,856 times
Reputation: 316
Scripture Catholic
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL_TN_Nana
Mark S. -- Christianity 101
I agree with a good portion of the creed that you posted. The section later highlighted by Irishmom is of course the clincher. Not just in the use of the word "catholic" -- I do know that means "universal", but in that it would appear that baptism means salvation. (We use Body of Christ to denote the "church".)
We believe that baptism follows salvation and the following is what I and the Southern Baptist Convention believe about salvation -- which is where Christianity begins in anyone:
Biblical scriptures in support of Catholic teachings on Baptism:
THE CHURCH
The Biblical Church
Primacy of Peter
Apostolic Succession
THE BIBLE
Scripture Alone
Oral Tradition
Deuterocanon
Septuagint
THE SACRAMENTS
Baptism
Confession
The Eucharist
Confirmation
Holy Matrimony
Divorce & Remarriage
Contraception
Homosexuality
Husband's Headship
Holy Orders
Anointing of the Sick
THE VIRGIN MARY
THE SAINTS
JUSTIFICATION
SALVATION
ESCHATOLOGY
Second Coming / Rapture
Purgatory
Hell
Zionism
THE TRINITY
Jesus Christ's Divinity
The Holy Spirit
Messianic Prophecies
CATHOLIC OTHER
Angels
Tongue Speaking
Usury
Sacramentals
Sunday Worship
Suffering
Fasting
Drinking
Vain & Repetitious Prayer
Modesty in Dress
Just War
SCIENCE
Evolution
Geocentrism
CATHOLIC Q&A
The Church
Scripture Alone
Baptism
Confession
The Eucharist
The Blessed Virgin Mary
Justification
THE CHURCH
The Biblical Church
Primacy of Peter
Apostolic Succession
THE BIBLE
Scripture Alone
Oral Tradition
Deuterocanon
Septuagint
THE SACRAMENTS
Baptism
Confession
The Eucharist
Confirmation
Holy Matrimony
Divorce & Remarriage
Contraception
Homosexuality
Husband's Headship
Holy Orders
Anointing of the Sick
THE VIRGIN MARY
THE SAINTS
JUSTIFICATION
SALVATION
ESCHATOLOGY
Second Coming / Rapture
Purgatory
Hell
Zionism
THE TRINITY
Jesus Christ's Divinity
The Holy Spirit
Messianic Prophecies
CATHOLIC OTHER
Angels
Tongue Speaking
Usury
Sacramentals
Sunday Worship
Suffering
Fasting
Drinking
Vain & Repetitious Prayer
Modesty in Dress
Just War
SCIENCE
Evolution
Geocentrism
CATHOLIC Q&A
The Church
Scripture Alone
Baptism
Confession
The Eucharist
The Blessed Virgin Mary
Justification
and more
blessings, Shen
Do you know the history of the Roman Catholic Church?
Christianity is not that complicated, but denominations certainly can confuse and cloud the simplicity of the message of salvation.
I'm not a big fan of organized religion. Give me the simplicity of the early church before man got his hands on it and wrapped it in all kinds of trappings.
That aside, I acknowledge that there ARE many good Christians within the Catholic church (so don't beat up on me, please) and that there ARE many good Christians in other denominations as well.
God bless us everyone.
Last edited by swbtoo; 05-31-2007 at 06:45 PM..
Reason: wording
Yes I do agree that there are most definitely some very strong Christian believers in the Catholic church. I know they exist in most every denomination. I have issues with some of the teachings in the Catholic church, but do believe I was given a very strong and bibilical background for understanding the trinity and God. There are some definite good teachings in the Catholic church. But truly this is only my personal opinion based on experience and lots of raw emotion still. So if I came across like a jerk in my other posts I do apologize.
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. I could go on. 
and tend to let it get the best of me. 
Scripture Catholic
