Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata
But he is not a person separate from the Father and the Son. God is one person. Any division into persons is polytheism, and permits demotion of Jesus, allowing millions to call themselves Christians while being utterly unregenerate.
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If you are warring against the doctrine of the Trinity because of its origin from the RCC, then do so by the scriptures.
I do not prefer to use the term of the Trinity, but scriptures supports the Three Persons in One God. I may refer to the Godhead, but even then, explanation is in order.
Do try to remember that it was for this cause that Jesus was crucified for in declaring himself to be One with God the Father. Yet we have Him praying to the Father and we have the Son speaking of the Holy Spirit, using the reference of the pronoun "he" and "himself" in regards.
And we have this witness as well at Jesus' baptism.
Matthew 3:
15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mark 1:
9And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
John 1:
31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 18:16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or
two more, that in the mouth of
two or
three witnesses every word may be established.
2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of
two or
three witnesses shall every word be established.
All three of these gospels bears witness of three seperate represenation of God and yet they are one as Genesis testifies when God spoke for teh act of creation in the plural but when God perfromed the act of creation, it was in the singular.
Genesis 1:
26And
God said, Let us make man in
our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So
God created man in
his own image, in the image of
God created he him; male and female created
he them.
Jesus spoke of how the Father, the Holy Spirit, and He will make their abode with us.
John 14:
23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and
we will come unto him, and make
our abode with him.
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26But
the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever
I have said unto you.
Since Jesus will judge righteously, we know He will do so as God the righteous Judge.
1 Timothy 5:19Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before
two or
three witnesses.
Hebrews 10:28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under
two or
three witnesses:
1 John 5:4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 14And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
The problem I have with the doctrine of the Trinity is that believers lose sight of John 14:6-7 in how one is to approach God the Father and that is through the Son. It is because of this doctrine by the RCC that the Nicene creed has broadened the way in the worship place to include the Holy Spirit to be worshipped, circumventing the will of the Father in that the Father can only be honoured and glorified through the Son.
In the world, American Indians call for the Great Spirit as mediums seek after spirits and American Indians that seek after their animal spirit guide, and etc and etc where the rudiment is seeking after the spirit and worshipping the spirit.
That is why God made only one way to approach Him and that is through the Son: not through the Holy Spirit and the Son: just the Son so that those in the world can bear witness of the Son and not practise those rudiments in christianity so as to stand apart from the world: otherwise, the world will bring in their spirits and their doctrines of devils.
Jesus meant exactly what He has said.
John 14:
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
By taking the route of the Holy Spirit instead of the Son, they are doing this:
John 10:
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ....
7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door:
So I do believe in the Godhead, but I do stress that the name of the Trinity and the name of the Holy Spirit is not to be exalted for God the Father can only be honoured and glorified through the Son and that is why His name is above every other name and that is the name to call on.
John 5:22-23 John 13:31-32 John 17:1-5 Philippians 2:5-11
Colossians 2:
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
And yet the OP is preaching another spirit to receive as if one can receive the Holy Spirit again: that is not of the gospel of Jesus Christ and it is a departure from the faith for we are complete in Him, and what the OP is describing is after the rudiment already found in the world before Christ came. No one should be calling on the name of the Holy Spirit. No one. The Holy Spirit in believers would never lead anyone to dishonour the Son in that way.
"Anti-christ" as applied in the scriptures means "instead of Christ". If I may say it clearer still by His grace: "instead of the Son" as in he who denies the Son, denies also the Father, which is what they are doing, everytime they call for the Holy Spirit to come when He is in us as promised. No one can call for the Spirit if He is already within us. That is hypocrisey at best. But as it is, they may not be able to hear as they are following the crowd. Only God can deliver them now by remidning them of their first love: Jesus Christ... the Bridegroom...hopefully before He comes for the chaste bride lest they be left behind as the foolish virgins.
Still... the Lord knows those that are His and Jesus will finish what He has started... even in those left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event.
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