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So many lies posted by miserable non-Cincinnati residents. One day they'll relize they've lost. They lost a long time ago. The streetcar has been a success and will continue to be a success for years to come. But sure keep being cry babies. Keep using phrases like "choo-choo." That literally makes look like a little 4 year old. It's just sad really, the anti-streetcar who have been brainwashed by 700WLW and the newspaper are truly miserable people. Lets go over some facts again:
1. Approved by voters – twice.
2. Built on time – haters said it wouldn’t be.
3. Built on budget – haters said it wouldn’t be.
4. No police or fire have been laid off because of it –haters said they would be.
5. Makes up less than 1% of the city budget.
6. Multiple businesses have opened stating one the reason they chose to open was because of the streetcar.
7. Multiple developers have stated one of the reason they chose to rehab/build is because of the streetcar. Biz journal reports its generating millions of dollars in development - haters thought it would do nothing positive.
8. Multiple businesses along the line have stated their sales have gone up because of the streetcar.
9. GE chose the Banks over Mason and stated one of the reasons was the streetcar.
10. CEO of Kroger just announced a major development on the line and said one of the reason was the streetcar.
11. Ridership rose greatly in the summer months - haters said nobody would ever ride it, better leadership with Yvette and a better council will implement simple fixes to increase ridership.
12. The city and multiple news outlets report the streetcar is in the black - haters still think it's losing money.
13. Better leadership on council and a new mayor will lead to easy fixes that will improve the system and increase ridership - which have been pointed out on here multiple times by multiple posters.
14. Cincinnati has much bigger issues to be focused on - it's a non issue in this years election because Cincinnatians know its been successful.
15. It's supported by the Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce and Cincinnati Tourism - you can't be pro-business voter and be anti-streetcar.
16. The money used to build it could have only been used to build it, otherwise the feds would have taken the money back.
17. It is here for good. Get over it or keep crying, it's your life, but the voters of Cincinnati has spoken. We like it, if you don't you can go home and cry.
These are facts, backed up by articles and stats. The crybaby non-Cincinnatians (save for Wilson) side does not have facts just opinion they believe is fact by being brainwashed by 700WLW, Enquirer, Koch Brothers and probably Trump (and of course the Russians ).
As long as we're going to continue with the name calling... You and others like you are lunatics.
That money would have been better used to improve (read not merely maintain the status quo) of the existing roads and infrastructure. I've said that more than once.
As long as we're going to continue with the name calling... You and others like you are lunatics.
That money would have been better used to improve (read not merely maintain the status quo) of the existing roads and infrastructure. I've said that more than once.
Then you keep saying things that aren't true. The streetcar was mostly built with money from grants, money that would have had to be returned to the federal grant. Similar to Kasich canceling the 3-C rail money. That money was returned to the feds and spent on rail projects in other states. If the streetcar was not built the money would have been returned and probably sent to KC, Atlanta, Phoenix or another city building a streetcar. It would have also caused future funding the from feds in jeopardy.
Again...the streetcar was built mostly with funds that could only be used on building the streetcar. That is a fact. Saying anything is simply uniformed or a an outright lie.
The federal government has also allocated $44.9 million in federal grants to the streetcar project. In a letter released by the city administration on Nov. 14, the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) explicitly stated that $40.9 million would be taken back if the project didn’t adequately progress.
Facts show the streetcar was build on time, on budget and while needs improving is a success. Stop complaining about nothing or at least come up with current arguments (based on facts, not BS from Bill Cunningham yelling at you through the radio) not debunked complaints from literally years ago. Or worry about things going on in Covington, because the voters of Cincinnati have spoken multiple times on the streetcar and we like. That why it's not an issue in the city elections this year. We've moved on, you clearly cannot. Sad really.
Last edited by cincydave8; 11-01-2017 at 08:17 AM..
Then you keep saying things that aren't true. The streetcar was mostly built with money from grants, money that would have had to be returned to the federal grant. Similar to Kasich canceling the 3-C rail money. That money was returned to the feds and spent on rail projects in other states. If the streetcar was not built the money would have been returned and probably sent to KC, Atlanta, Phoenix or another city building a streetcar. It would have also caused future funding the from feds in jeopardy.
Again...the streetcar was built mostly with funds that could only be used on building the streetcar. That is a fact. Saying anything is simply uniformed or a an outright lie.
The federal government has also allocated $44.9 million in federal grants to the streetcar project. In a letter released by the city administration on Nov. 14, the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) explicitly stated that $40.9 million would be taken back if the project didn’t adequately progress.
Facts show the streetcar was build on time, on budget and while needs improving is a success. Stop complaining about nothing or at least come up with current arguments (based on facts, not BS from Bill Cunningham yelling at you through the radio) not debunked complaints from literally years ago. Or worry about things going on in Covington, because the voters of Cincinnati have spoken multiple times on the streetcar and we like. That why it's not an issue in the city elections this year. We've moved on, you clearly cannot. Sad really.
I believe you might be missing the larger point that the issue in more a principle; these grants that are created solely for transit projects as a concept are misguided and the money put into these grants would be better used for other projects. I think we all understand the exclusive nature of specific grants. The point is that these kinds of grants probably shouldn't exist. This is the point being made, I believe.
I believe you might be missing the larger point that the issue in more a principle; these grants that are created solely for transit projects as a concept are misguided and the money put into these grants would be better used for other projects. I think we all understand the exclusive nature of specific grants. The point is that these kinds of grants probably shouldn't exist. This is the point being made, I believe.
If that's the case then the federal grants for transit projects probably shouldn't be debated on Cincinnati forum, especially years after the fact. Seems like it would more appropriate on the national politics forum or the city planning one.
If that's the case then the federal grants for transit projects probably shouldn't be debated on Cincinnati forum, especially years after the fact. Seems like it would more appropriate on the national politics forum or the city planning one.
Though I think it is still relevant to discuss, as those grants are only the beginning of the costs. After that, funding for streetcars and the like can then fall onto the city. Point is, the streetcar is not free just because it's a federal grand that had to be used for that purpose. Not saying that's what you're saying, but only why I think it's still fine to discuss, in my opinion.
I'll try to clarify some of my points, yet again. Between the personal attacks, lies and rumor mongering leveled at me I still may be able to clear up some of the issues that a few posters have had when reading my ideas.
First, the Street Car is a waste of money in this case. I'm not even remotely suggesting that it be abandoned and unfunded. That would lead to bigger problems. But I do believe it is pointless to throw good money after bad on new routes when that money can be put to better use at the local level. Roads, bridges (Western Hills Viaduct is a good example) and improved bus service and schools would benefit from the money the city used on the Street Car. Federal dollars are a non issue in this case since they are only earmarked for specific projects in the form of grants or low interest loans. No additional Trolley lines, means no additional Federal funding.
Second, a real rail line such as the one that is about to open up between Hartford-New Haven-Springfield, MA would be a far wiser move and could truly stimulate population growth as well as new business along and near a specific corridor. A new passenger rail service running from Dayton to Middletown to Cincinnati would be a sincere asset to the region. The new line in CT and MA which will hook up with Metro North in New Haven which will connect to NYC is something to explore here. The cost to ride from Hartford to New Haven is something like $8 each way with reduced fares when you buy a book of tickets or the equivalent. $13 from Springfield to New Haven and again reduced rates for bulk purchases. Existing rail lines are being used and little infrastructure work is required. Sharing a rail line or lines such as this makes economical sense and such a project has a real chance at succeeding. Bus lines in the cities could be routed to the train stations with some increased frequency to allow for greater potential of rail customers. Low cost or better yet, free parking for rail riders that use a car would be wise. Much like the commuter lots that exist for Express bus service. in small towns or suburbs along the line, perhaps some vans could be used to shuttle people to and from the train from parking lots or pick up points in the town. Would be more cost effective to use a van that can handle a dozen people in a small town vs. a bus.
Now to clear up some of the lies being spread about me. At this point I don't plan to sell my house or move. I've been with my current employer for almost 12 years and I am trying to find a way to stay with them. Will know by April at the latest if that is going to happen. Will address the issue of whether or not I will be staying here or moving pending the outcome of my work. Fortunately if I have to change jobs it appears that finding work in NKY will take very little time. If I had less time in with the current employer chances are I would be finding a new job in NKY. But nearly 12 years with the current company and with the potential to earn more if I can move within the company is keeping me with them for a few more months to see what will happen.
The ONLY thing I've bashed Cincinnati about is the tax and spend policies at City Hall. That's it. Anyone that believes otherwise needs to reread every post I've ever made about this city and then point out to me where I've made a special attempt to denigrate the entire city or region aside from that one aspect. It is laughable to think that by pointing out Cincinnati's potential to go bankrupt in the future due to the wanton spending going on and possibly in the future if the path is not changed, bears little resemblance to the issues Detroit has had. Money problems and far more. Cincinnati is far from perfect like any city or any community for that matter. but I recognize it is not nearly in the same situation as Detroit was for decades prior to going bankrupt. Hartford is not even close to being in as bad shape as Detroit but the way the city has been mismanaged for so many years has led to major fiscal problems. I see the same thing can happen in Cincinnati unless changes in the way the tax dollars are spent is on the near horizon.
Hope that clears up a few things for the people that like to "project" and see things as they don't exist.
So many lies posted by miserable non-Cincinnati residents. One day they'll relize they've lost. They lost a long time ago. The streetcar has been a success and will continue to be a success for years to come. But sure keep being cry babies. Keep using phrases like "choo-choo." That literally makes look like a little 4 year old. It's just sad really, the anti-streetcar who have been brainwashed by 700WLW and the newspaper are truly miserable people. Lets go over some facts again:
1. Approved by voters – twice.
2. Built on time – haters said it wouldn’t be.
3. Built on budget – haters said it wouldn’t be.
4. No police or fire have been laid off because of it –haters said they would be.
5. Makes up less than 1% of the city budget.
6. Multiple businesses have opened stating one the reason they chose to open was because of the streetcar.
7. Multiple developers have stated one of the reason they chose to rehab/build is because of the streetcar. Biz journal reports its generating millions of dollars in development - haters thought it would do nothing positive.
8. Multiple businesses along the line have stated their sales have gone up because of the streetcar.
9. GE chose the Banks over Mason and stated one of the reasons was the streetcar.
10. CEO of Kroger just announced a major development on the line and said one of the reason was the streetcar.
11. Ridership rose greatly in the summer months - haters said nobody would ever ride it, better leadership with Yvette and a better council will implement simple fixes to increase ridership.
12. The city and multiple news outlets report the streetcar is in the black - haters still think it's losing money.
13. Better leadership on council and a new mayor will lead to easy fixes that will improve the system and increase ridership - which have been pointed out on here multiple times by multiple posters.
14. Cincinnati has much bigger issues to be focused on - it's a non issue in this years election because Cincinnatians know its been successful.
15. It's supported by the Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce and Cincinnati Tourism - you can't be pro-business voter and be anti-streetcar.
16. The money used to build it could have only been used to build it, otherwise the feds would have taken the money back.
17. It is here for good. Get over it or keep crying, it's your life, but the voters of Cincinnati has spoken. We like it, if you don't you can go home and cry.
These are facts, backed up by articles and stats. The crybaby non-Cincinnatians (save for Wilson) side does not have facts just opinion they believe is fact by being brainwashed by 700WLW, Enquirer, Koch Brothers and probably Trump (and of course the Russians ).
For the record, I LOVE the street car and honestly ride it for "fun" when in town. That said, there are many problems and it is not the boon to the city you say it is. Where is empirical data that points to it? The Enquirer is quite the liberal rag....why would they want the streetcar to fail?
I have read many things which state it loses money, but after HEAVY corporate subsidies, it appears this year it essentially breaks even...I don't get how when it is a statistical fact that ridership has declined.
If it is SUCCESS, WHY IS RIDERSHIP DOWN?
When I ask my suburban Cincy friends why they don't ride, they state inconvenient, unfamiliarity with stations, and too many panhandlers and vangrants especially at certain stops and sometimes on trains. This is less common in big cities where there is much higher ridership, so it feels "safer." I know, ridiculous, but that's how people think. I see the vagrants or panhandlers and keep walking, being an urbanite, I've been burned by many of them before who use my change to buy booze/narcotics.
Then you keep saying things that aren't true. The streetcar was mostly built with money from grants, money that would have had to be returned to the federal grant. Similar to Kasich canceling the 3-C rail money. That money was returned to the feds and spent on rail projects in other states. If the streetcar was not built the money would have been returned and probably sent to KC, Atlanta, Phoenix or another city building a streetcar. It would have also caused future funding the from feds in jeopardy.
Again...the streetcar was built mostly with funds that could only be used on building the streetcar. That is a fact. Saying anything is simply uniformed or a an outright lie.
The federal government has also allocated $44.9 million in federal grants to the streetcar project. In a letter released by the city administration on Nov. 14, the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) explicitly stated that $40.9 million would be taken back if the project didn’t adequately progress.
Facts show the streetcar was build on time, on budget and while needs improving is a success. Stop complaining about nothing or at least come up with current arguments (based on facts, not BS from Bill Cunningham yelling at you through the radio) not debunked complaints from literally years ago. Or worry about things going on in Covington, because the voters of Cincinnati have spoken multiple times on the streetcar and we like. That why it's not an issue in the city elections this year. We've moved on, you clearly cannot. Sad really.
I'll admit I don't know the details of the financing as well as you...but the numbers point to the streetcar being a failure so far. And I know every stop and all the development at every stop on it. Generally, the Feds will fund good mass transit. Don't you thing a light rail line running from Kenwood, through UC, into OTR, downtown, Newport, on to the Airport would have been a better boon to the region?
Small loop streetcar lines are much better suited to smaller tourist cities...think New Orleans, and more regionally, Louisville (they should build a small streetcar line like the one in Cincy as they could never support light rail).
Cincinnati is set up as a major metro that spreads out 20 miles from downtown, and I think if they wanted to help move people and give an alternative to 71/75 which is a mess, light rail would be the way top go, and it would help to continue to rejuvenate some very forgotten areas...as a basic example, imagine how Camp Washington would pop with a light rail line stop off MLK? Cincinnati had a chance to set itself up as a mini Boston....those of us who have lived or moved away in Cincinnati can and do have good insight into this, so don't take it so personally! Cincinnati would support light rail...why are Sunbelt cities opening this stuff and Cincy is not? Orlando is a comparable size to Cincinnati and look what they built in the last 5 years...like Cincy, their metro sprawls north south along a major freeway corridor:
Several things:
First, I find it both amusing and bizarre how some of you treat this issue of a streetcar like it was a religious matter. Like you were defending your faith, or something just as fundamental. I also simply love how some of you treat your own opinions like it's, again, the scripture. And anyone disagreeing is a stinkin' heretic!
I'd like to remind you all to remember what they say about opinions
Second, the thread won't be closed, not just yet at least. It's a good reflection of the local atmosphere, and the locals. At least that's the impression you're leaving, and if you want that impression to be better, maybe some of you should consider acting like adults, not like you're 12 and you need to "win" this, no matter the costs.
Third, it won't be closed because I'm sure it would only pop back up again and/or this frustration would spill over to other threads. You now have a designated poo flinging space, or at least that's how some of you apparently see it, there is no point in expanding it to the whole forum
Yac.
For the record, I LOVE the street car and honestly ride it for "fun" when in town. That said, there are many problems and it is not the boon to the city you say it is. Where is empirical data that points to it? The Enquirer is quite the liberal rag....why would they want the streetcar to fail?
I have read many things which state it loses money, but after HEAVY corporate subsidies, it appears this year it essentially breaks even...I don't get how when it is a statistical fact that ridership has declined.
If it is SUCCESS, WHY IS RIDERSHIP DOWN?
When I ask my suburban Cincy friends why they don't ride, they state inconvenient, unfamiliarity with stations, and too many panhandlers and vangrants especially at certain stops and sometimes on trains. This is less common in big cities where there is much higher ridership, so it feels "safer." I know, ridiculous, but that's how people think. I see the vagrants or panhandlers and keep walking, being an urbanite, I've been burned by many of them before who use my change to buy booze/narcotics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948
I'll admit I don't know the details of the financing as well as you...but the numbers point to the streetcar being a failure so far. And I know every stop and all the development at every stop on it. Generally, the Feds will fund good mass transit. Don't you thing a light rail line running from Kenwood, through UC, into OTR, downtown, Newport, on to the Airport would have been a better boon to the region?
Small loop streetcar lines are much better suited to smaller tourist cities...think New Orleans, and more regionally, Louisville (they should build a small streetcar line like the one in Cincy as they could never support light rail).
Cincinnati is set up as a major metro that spreads out 20 miles from downtown, and I think if they wanted to help move people and give an alternative to 71/75 which is a mess, light rail would be the way top go, and it would help to continue to rejuvenate some very forgotten areas...as a basic example, imagine how Camp Washington would pop with a light rail line stop off MLK? Cincinnati had a chance to set itself up as a mini Boston....those of us who have lived or moved away in Cincinnati can and do have good insight into this, so don't take it so personally! Cincinnati would support light rail...why are Sunbelt cities opening this stuff and Cincy is not? Orlando is a comparable size to Cincinnati and look what they built in the last 5 years...like Cincy, their metro sprawls north south along a major freeway corridor:
Look, I love the streetcar but the city can do better.
The ridership hit like 80 to 90% of the original projections. But yes, the projections were off. Of course, as time goes on and more developments pop up (like Kroger tower) it will end up meeting and exceeding the projections, so the point will be moot in 2024 or earlier. There are several easy and cheap fixes the current mayor refuses to do like fixing the kiosks, signal priority, larger fines for cars that block the streetcar, protected lanes in some spots for it, running more cars, not running in on Christmas, running it during opening day parade and so on. Most of these simple fixes and there's good a chance it hits the original projections.
Ridership is not the only thing that measure it's success. It's in the black and generating millions of dollars in development. See previous posts with articles to show this as being fact from WCPO, WVXU and the Biz Courier.
I personally have rarely seen "vagrants" at any stops, but lets be honest people who live in the suburbs are often afraid of the city anyways. A simple "no" to an addict or whatever is all it takes. I know people who are still afraid of going to Washington Park, so some peoples minds will just never change, let them enjoy the West Chester Applebee's. The bottom line is along the route there's tons of development, even now North of Liberty. But walk up Vine Street north of Liberty or take one the Underground Brewery Tours you'll see how one block or 2 blocks off the route it gets sketchy real fast. Streetcar=development. We've seen this with previous articles posted from multiple sources. Lots of quotes from small biz owners up and down the route stating since the streetcar has opened their sales have gone up. Also quote from GE and CEO of Kroger stating their support for the streetcar. The Chamber of Commerce also supports the streetcar because of the development.
Again, the numbers as posted in previous numerous news articles show the streetcar is in the black and generating millions of dollars in development. So, in my eyes that's a success.
As far as larger system, absolutely would be amazing and hopefully one day we'll be there. This streetcar was originally planned to go uptown to UC but Kasich cut that money. MetroMoves plan taught us that Rome wasn't built in a day. Especially in Cincinnati, a liberal city surrounded by conservative suburbs (much like Louisville and most cities). I can't imagine a train running between say downtown Louisville to Bowling Green or even E-Town being supported by the folks in Bullit County. Link to MetroMoves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetroMoves
You're absolutely right, we can do better and hopefully we'll get a more transit friendly council and mayor next week. But rail expansion whether big like you're talking about or a simple streetcar expansion uptown isn't happening in the next 4 years.
Last edited by cincydave8; 11-02-2017 at 05:39 AM..
Reason: so many typos
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