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Old 04-19-2010, 07:44 PM
 
2,204 posts, read 6,718,326 times
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kjbrill/wilson ... listen to the young people, you old farts! lol

I think Tom Luken's (probably one of the biggest opponents) comment condemning the streetcar because Chris Bortz has a personal interest in this project because of his family's millions of dollars invested in the urban core! What was he thinking when he said that!

This is like me advising my friend not to open up a deli business because it'll be too crowded during lunch time! What a hoot.

I was surprised to hear Xavier doing their own economic study of the financial impact of the SC - very refreshing to see the younger generation taking on task like this while the older know-it-alls do not care to educate themselves in the matter. It's obvious the YP's of Cincinnati are ready to get this first phase done. Speakers of progressive groups that represent 10's of thousands of YP's are vocal and influential in this task. City leaders are taking note. I like what Thomas or Bearding ... can't remember which one brought up that cities need to start thinking 75 years down the road instead of 2 years ... when their term ends.

The Don/Wilson/kjbrill/and anybody else ...

Want to elaborate on an investment that produces a 14:1 return? I'm all ears!
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Blue Ash, Ohio (Cincinnati)
2,785 posts, read 6,632,773 times
Reputation: 705
I am curious, what is the route for the streetcar?
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:04 AM
 
2,204 posts, read 6,718,326 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavercreek33 View Post
I am curious, what is the route for the streetcar?
Cincinnati Streetcar - Route Map

Also, I love posting on CD, but this is the WRONG site to seak info - as 98% of the folks that will respond to this thread do not even live within city limits.

... with an educational slant:

Cincinnati Streetcar News
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:14 AM
 
Location: Blue Ash, Ohio (Cincinnati)
2,785 posts, read 6,632,773 times
Reputation: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise View Post
Cincinnati Streetcar - Route Map

Also, I love posting on CD, but this is the WRONG site to seak info - as 98% of the folks that will respond to this thread do not even live within city limits.

... with an educational slant:

Cincinnati Streetcar News
lol ok thanks, I will be sure to take note of that from now on.
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Hartwell--IN THE City of Cincinnati
1,055 posts, read 4,135,904 times
Reputation: 914
I am so sick of this streetcar BS. I can give you a list of things this City NEEDS and cant afford already. A bunch of Xavier students that did a study for the streetcar showed up. NONE of them probably own homes in the City or have been vested as long as us OLD people. I watched the tweets yesterday about this issue...rude comments about old people and council members who did not support this motion. Ridiculous.
I will pray every day that the federal government continues to NOT fund this project and City council walks away with egg on their faces....shame on them for wasteful spending and putting millions of eggs in one basket for a hope and dream when there are REAL problems in this City that need fixed!
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,799,024 times
Reputation: 1956
Cincy-Rise...

The City keeps sponsoring studies as to how economically important it is to the entire metro area. So don't fault non-residents if we feel entitled to comment on what is going on there.

As related to the enthusiasm of the YP, I keep reading how many of them have a different set of values from their parents. This has always been the case, the rebellion of the next generation. They do not want to strive for material possessions like their parents - translation they do not want to work. They are in favor of projects like the streetcars - translation they are in favor of anything someone else pays for.

And if you believe a 14:1 return on investment, I know of some Florida swamp land you may be interested in. It is exactly this kind of warped economics which permitted Bernie Madoff to operate his ponzi scheme, and has cost millions of Americans their hard earned investment gains in the recent economic collapse. BTW I feel the YP were the first in line to swallow the idea their house investment was next to guaranteed and bought into the variable rate interest loans, etc.

You may want to catagorize myself/Wilson/Don as Old Farts. That is true. But I will venture to say our truely conservative approach to life has its rewards, mainly when you get old and do not have to move in with the kids.

I am in favor of progress, as long as it can be measured. Strange as you may view it, many jobs have been relocated in the burbs. I am in favor of subsidies to the Metro to permit people to communicate to jobs in the burbs. In my mind, this should be a two-way-street. People from the burbs going downtown to their jobs, with people from either the City or nearby going to their jobs in the burbs. But this program has been less than successful. Now we are led to believe Streetcars and Light Rail will change this overnight? What othr deals do you have for me?

Last edited by kjbrill; 04-20-2010 at 06:46 AM.. Reason: format
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:46 AM
 
2,204 posts, read 6,718,326 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartwell Girl View Post
I am so sick of this streetcar BS. I can give you a list of things this City NEEDS and cant afford already. A bunch of Xavier students that did a study for the streetcar showed up. NONE of them probably own homes in the City or have been vested as long as us OLD people.
... along with YP's and married couples AND older folks that have moved to OTR to restore their own homes and start families there.

The most foolish comment someone can make in regards to growing their city is to say; "the hell with the younger generation, what do they know anyway?"

How do we fix our city woes? Why not start by investing into making the city a place first time home buyers and young families want to buy into? Generating tax revenue sounds like a good first step to me ... and yes, a lot of home restorers spoke to city hall yesterday - no need to be dishonest and lie on a public forum. I was there.

HWG, as an older, mature woman with kids and obviously passionate about this topic ... I'm assuming you've invested quite a bit of time towards your own research? Care to post a link to a PDF or something we can see?

Quote:
I will pray every day that the federal government continues to NOT fund this project and City council walks away with egg on their faces....shame on them for wasteful spending and putting millions of eggs in one basket for a hope and dream when there are REAL problems in this City that need fixed!
Again, Cole had city financiers educate the general public for pure pleasure (and a personal education lesson) that these funds CANNOT be used for anything else ... including the Duke utility purchase.

I'm still waiting on you to provide us a way where we can attain a ROI of 14:1 ... throwing opinions around like party favors is nice and all, but usually constructive criticism is followed by a better solution.

So I ask ... what can the city do to invest where it sees returns even close to that of the SC?
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati, OH
279 posts, read 718,004 times
Reputation: 99
I can say I think this is a pretty cool idea, and I realize the long term impact it might have along the routes, but still...if you don't live very close to that route, when would you ever use it? I'm just saying...I live in Madisonville, if I drove to Clifton, I'd just drive downtown and vice versa.
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:09 AM
 
2,204 posts, read 6,718,326 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Cincy-Rise...

The City keeps sponsoring studies as to how economically important it is to the entire metro area. So don't fault non-residents if we feel entitled to comment on what is going on there.

No, Phase I will only first serve the Downtown and Uptown area.

Quote:

As related to the enthusiasm of the YP, I keep reading how many of them have a different set of values from their parents. This has always been the case, the rebellion of the next generation. They do not want to strive for material possessions like their parents - translation they do not want to work.
Ha! I know personally 4-5 lawyers that were there and spoke on behalf of the SC yesterday that are in their mid-to-late 20's and 30's. Do you seriously want to tell me that they do not work hard for their future?!?! I have a friend that set up his student loans after the bar exam as if he were financing a fixed 30 yr loan!

What you've said is complete bull****. There were a number of younger couples that spoke yesterday that bought a unit or building in OTR that are restoring it themselves. Do you have any idea how hard it is to work full-time and renovate a building such as this with any time that you might have left at the end of the day?! It takes someone with a strong work ethic and determination to take on task such as these!

There were a number of folks there that represent political groups that have tens of thousands of members ... and yet they spend every damn last second they have trying to make a change -while working full-time- and now they are lazy?!?!

What in the hell are you guys talking about? Do you guys even know what you're talking about? You should at least know a little something about these "kids" before you start casting judgement. Their work ethic will put 98% of American's to shame.

Quote:
And if you believe a 14:1 return on investment, I know of some Florida swamp land you may be interested in. It is exactly this kind of warped economics which permitted Bernie Madoff to operate his ponzi scheme, and has cost millions of Americans their hard earned investment gains in the recent economic collapse.

kjbrill, you're better than this ...

Madoff's practices aren't encourage by America's top economist.
Madoff's practices were illegal.
Florida swamp land serves no one, as its counterpart serves over 54% of the region's employment.
And for ****s and giggles Florida is already expanding/investing to serve its residents.

Quote:
BTW I feel the YP were the first in line to swallow the idea their house investment was next to guaranteed and bought into the variable rate interest loans, etc.
Data? Besides, it was the suburbs who got rocked the hardest in your scenario - so that doesn't make sense ... but I'll give you a chance to back up your data. Waiting...

Quote:

You may want to catagorize myself/Wilson/Don as Old Farts. That is true. But I will venture to say our truely conservative approach to life has its rewards, mainly when you get old and do not have to move in with the kids.
Oh - your age group is heavily represented for pro-mass transit. If you came yesterday, you would have seen this. Not only that, but who do you think makes up the second largest age group for Downtown condos?

Quote:

I am in favor of progress, as long as it can be measured. Strange as you may view it, many jobs have been relocated in the burbs. I am in favor of subsidies to the Metro to permit people to communicate to jobs in the burbs. In my mind, this should be a two-way-street. People from the burbs going downtown to their jobs, with people from either the City or nearby going to their jobs in the burbs. But this program has been less than successful. Now we are led to believe Streetcars and Light Rail will change this overnight? What othr deals do you have for me?

This is my question to you and wilson, because I know he disagrees ...

Show me SOMETHING, hell anything with any type of invest results such as these and I'll be more than happy to support it!

Folks we are already seeing investment and interest along the route and it's nothing but planned route at this point! I don't know what else to say ... and almost every major city in the US is either planning/under construction/or currently has a streetcar system and you want to use the words: "led to believe?" ... get real, it's over we have them already being used and see what the results are. This isn't some pie-in-the-sky ... open your eyes.
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:11 AM
 
2,204 posts, read 6,718,326 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubby513 View Post
I can say I think this is a pretty cool idea, and I realize the long term impact it might have along the routes, but still...if you don't live very close to that route, when would you ever use it? I'm just saying...I live in Madisonville, if I drove to Clifton, I'd just drive downtown and vice versa.
This is Phase I, not II or III, etc. and your area would be served by lightrail, not streetcars.
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