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It's funny how Non-NJ residents suck on NJ in all sorts of forums and make duplicate accounts in doing so. NJians are defending, while you guys for no reason try to belittle the place. Of course Hoboken is next to NYC and has a lot of NYC commuters, so what, it's still more urban than most American cities- And that apparently bothers some people to no end.. The urban influence had everything to do with Manhattan. I'm not denying it, it is what it is- Most of the urban overflow of NYC went west into Hudson County.
Literally, every NJ thread attracts people who try to deny or downplay the metro its in, the access it has, the urban qualities it has, etc- Get over it already, it's the same ignorant people every time.
Maryland is no different when it comes to DC
Again, how does a city that wikipedia calls: "The city is a bedroom community of New York City, where most of its employed residents work"
can even dream of competing with a historical San Francisco?
How do you downplay being a "bedroom community" ???? ROFTL ;()
Again, how does a city that wikipedia calls: "The city is a bedroom community of New York City, where most of its employed residents work"
can even dream of competing with a historical San Francisco?
How do you downplay being a "bedroom community" ???? ROFTL ;()
Again, how does a city that wikipedia calls: "The city is a bedroom community of New York City, where most of its employed residents work"
can even dream of competing with a historical San Francisco?
How do you downplay being a "bedroom community" ???? ROFTL ;()
hmmm,. Tell me if I'm wrong... but would you say Silver Spring is a suburb?
How can you even compare a suburb like Hoboken or JC where most people commute to New York City to work and for entertainement with self sustained city like Atlanta or Houston?
Some people in this forum really believe that the only valid indication of urbanity is density of population. Suburb is suburb.
So, by your definition, the Upper East Side of Manhattan is a suburb? Or the West Village of Manhattan is a suburb?
After all, those are primarily residential communities, with most folks commuting to other neighborhoods.
Both Jersey City and Hoboken have large commercial cores. JC has a larger commercial core than all but maybe a dozen or so American city centers.
If you want to say anything that is not a core city is a suburb, then fine. But that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at things. After all, sometimes city proper is suburban, and sometimes suburban is urban.
And yet it was "resurrected" before many areas of NYC proper. Face it................. More people would rather move to Hoboken, Weehawken, North Bergen, Jersey City, ect (lets not even get into the amount of NY families moving to the NJ suburbs) than god forsaken Staten Island, 90% of The Bronx, way out in the cut Queens or 70% of Brooklyn.
Like it or not; NJ is more desirable than many, many,many parts of NYC. Sorry.
I think this is highly debatable.
If you said that most folks want to live in waterfront Jersey (i.e. directly across the river from Manhattan), then yes, you are correct.
But the Bronx and Staten Island generally have higher property values than inland areas like (for example) Union City or North Bergen (to say nothing of Brooklyn or Queens).
Waterfront Jersey functions like Brownstone Brooklyn or Waterfront Queens (though Jersey is a tad cheaper). But inland urban NJ isn't more desirable than inland Outer Boroughs (say, comparing Newark to Jamaica, or the Bronx to Hackensack).
First off the title at the top says Jersey City/ Hoboken... Where did Newark and Downtown Manhattan come from. It's interesting... every time you go over the top with your Jersey comparisons you wheel lin NYC like it was the topic. If you want to compare NYC... say NYC! and let JC be the add-on, as NYC is the prinicpal city and Jersey City Hoboken are a part of its metro... not the other way around.
I think you have an idea in your mind of what a suburb is supposed to be and you have an idea in your mind of what a city is supposed to be based on your provincial thoughts. Therefore you can allow yourself to say things like Jersey City is more urban than Atlanta or San Francisco.... As a matter of fact do you want to throw in LA, Houston and Chicago too.
I basically go of the census data and the US definitions. You apparently believe that being more urban is based solely of population density and things related. I believe that it is sooo much more. Maybe someone thats confined to a small space and lives in a crowded world has no room in his/her brain to see that there is more to being a city than looking like a classic industrial revolution city.
I may have been mistaken on Atlantic City... it is too far to be a satellite city of NYC. Trenton is a better example. And nobody considers those places suburban... CLEARLY you speak for everybody.
First off the title at the top says Jersey City/ Hoboken... Where did Newark and Downtown Manhattan come from. It's interesting... every time you go over the top with your Jersey comparisons you wheel lin NYC like it was the topic. If you want to compare NYC... say NYC! and let JC be the add-on, as NYC is the prinicpal city and Jersey City Hoboken are a part of its metro... not the other way around.
I think you have an idea in your mind of what a suburb is supposed to be and you have an idea in your mind of what a city is supposed to be based on your provincial thoughts. Therefore you can allow yourself to say things like Jersey City is more urban than Atlanta or San Francisco.... As a matter of fact do you want to throw in LA, Houston and Chicago too.
I basically go of the census data and the US definitions. You apparently believe that being more urban is based solely of population density and things related. I believe that it is sooo much more. Maybe someone thats confined to a small space and lives in a crowded world has no room in his/her brain to see that there is more to being a city than looking like a classic industrial revolution city.
I may have been mistaken on Atlantic City... it is too far to be a satellite city of NYC. Trenton is a better example. And nobody considers those places suburban... CLEARLY you speak for everybody.
Newark and Downtown sandwich JC and Hoboken. I'm not adding them on. It's just a figure- ATL is 135 square miles, do you know what would happen if you gave JC/Hoboken 135 square mile to work with instead of 16?- Once you look at that figure alone- The answer to "Who's more urban?" is obvious. ATL would shudder in comparison if it only had 16 sqmi to work with.
When you limit JC and Hoboken to their tiny land area, they're not going to look too significant or world class (especially with the monstrosity living next door)- But they are definitely urban- why try to pry that away from them? They have better PT, higher density, more walkable neighborhoods, complete access to all sorts of job markets, and they're extremely diverse (all more so than ATL)-- Hoboken and JC can be thriving, accessible, urban places to live, it's just straight stupidity to try and say they're nothing but suburbs- There has to be a inferiority complex that goes along with that argument
What exactly makes ATL more urban?... It has more people and it sprawls for miles on end? Please explain what makes ATL more urban than JC, or Hudson County for that matter. I haven't heard a peep. ATL is a great city with plenty to offer, and it has it's urban areas, but no... Don't compare its urbanity to any city in the NYC metro area.
Scratch the "Suburban' topic- That can go on all day- But that doesn't make them any less urban.
JC/Hoboken are in the midst of the most urban region of America. NYC is NYC, but no one can deny the impact NYC has made on the immediate area- I'm not wheeling the two together, it's just "why" JC/Hob are the way they are. IT is what it is, it's pointless to be in denial about it.
And for one, I NEVER said JC was more urban than SF. SF has the more thriving urban core, I mentioned it, posted pics, and gave it its props... You're the one who brought one of the least urban cities in America into this... ATL.
Last edited by BPerone201; 12-06-2010 at 03:01 PM..
When you limit JC and Hoboken to their tiny land area, they're not going to look too significant or world class (especially with the monstrosity living next door)- But they are definitely urban- why try to pry that away from them? They have better PT, higher density, more walkable neighborhoods, complete access to all sorts of job markets, and they're extremely diverse (all more so than ATL)--
ATL has Coca-Cola, Delta and CNN. You are sure about the job market claim?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201
Hoboken and JC can be thriving, accessible, urban places to live, it's just straight stupidity to try and say they're nothing but suburbs- There has to be a inferiority complex that goes along with that argument
maybe they can but at this point they are merely suburbs, unable to sustain itself without the neighboor next door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201
What exactly makes ATL more urban?... It has more people and it sprawls for miles on end? Please explain what makes ATL more urban than JC, or Hudson County for that matter. I haven't heard a peep. ATL is a great city with plenty to offer, and it has it's urban areas, but no... Don't compare its urbanity to any city in the NYC metro area.
Scratch the "Suburban' topic- That can go on all day- But that doesn't make them any less urban.
.
The fact that it is a self contained and sustained city and primate city of a metro area as opposed to JC/Hoboken that are merely suburbs only growing because of its proximity to the "monstrosity" next door.
Wikipedia called Hoboken "a bedroom community". For me that kills any argument for Hoboken's urbanity.
Comparing a "bedroom community" to the historic and thriving ON ITS OWN cities like Atlanta or San Francisco is just plain dumb.
Comparing a "bedroom community" to the historic and thriving ON ITS OWN cities like Atlanta or San Francisco is just plain dumb.
Once again, Jersey City is NOT a bedroom community.
Its core has 40 million square feet of office space, which makes it bigger than downtown Atlanta. It has a huge corporate/Wall Street presence, including thousands of Goldman Sachs workers (among others).
And you're correct that Jersey City shouldn't be compared to Atlanta, because Atlanta is like 100 times more suburban. The most urban residential neighborhood in Atlanta is still much more suburban than the most suburban residential neighborhood in Jersey City.
Jersey City is dominated by apartment buildings and public transit. Atlanta is mostly ranch homes on large lots.
Atlanta isn't even comparable to the urbanity you see in the Midwest. To compare it to core ares of the NYC region is just silly.
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To Wikipedai is 50 times reliable than you and your opinions.
It's interesting... every time you go over the top with your Jersey comparisons you wheel lin NYC like it was the topic. If you want to compare NYC... say NYC! and let JC be the add-on, as NYC is the prinicpal city and Jersey City Hoboken are a part of its metro... not the other way around.
