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I think California probably has the worst reputation for sprawl, simply due to the out of control growth rates pre-2000 and the way in which planning was done throughout the state (more like, no planning at all).
However, I really do think people are overexaggerating on how much California (and other Western metros) sprawl. From reading this thread, you'd swear that all 163,696 square miles of California was a sprawling mess, which is pretty far from the truth.
There are these things called MOUNTAIN RANGES (not hills, mountain ranges) that make building subdivisions extremely difficult and are usually protected by the Federal Government from development. Aside from the few wealthy people who have homes on top of those mountains (and cry on TV when their homes get enveloped by landslides), most of the development is done on flat land. In order to maximize space on the flat land, homes have to be packed in tighter than what is seen out east (IE dense sprawl). So, I guess you can call it the worst of both worlds: the place sprawls, but doesn't sprawl enough for a lot of people to feel like "they have enough space"
Since there is a shortage of flat land in California that people want to live in, I don't see how it could be the most sprawling state. Hell, I can find this 15 minutes from my house, and I live in LA!
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs048.snc6/167890_493850876856_655271856_6435758_2045268_n.jp g (broken link)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs053.snc6/168313_493851266856_655271856_6435762_2208498_n.jp g (broken link)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs006.snc6/165690_493852916856_655271856_6435782_4159024_n.jp g (broken link)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs744.ash1/163641_493853491856_655271856_6435795_2164372_n.jp g (broken link)
The reason why LA is the largest metro in California is because it has the most direct access to flat land. However, now that the Bay Area is starting to sprawl out into the Central Valley (hundreds of times larger than the San Bernardino, Riverside, and Temecula Valleys), who knows how the future will turn out.
Those are not urban centers. Even Sacramento and San Jose have denser, more walkable, urban downtowns that those AZ cities.
What I meant was all those Arizona cities have some kind of urban center, even as suburban as they are overall.
But to write that Sacramento and San Jose have more urban downtown areas than Phoenix, you have got to be kidding.
Downtown Phoenix used to be very dead when I moved there nearly 15 years ago but it has improved significantly. Have you been there lately or are you just going by perception and rumor?
I think California probably has the worst reputation for sprawl, simply due to the out of control growth rates pre-2000 and the way in which planning was done throughout the state (more like, no planning at all).
However, I really do think people are overexaggerating on how much California (and other Western metros) sprawl. From reading this thread, you'd swear that all 163,696 square miles of California was a sprawling mess, which is pretty far from the truth.
There are these things called MOUNTAIN RANGES (not hills, mountain ranges) that make building subdivisions extremely difficult and are usually protected by the Federal Government from development. Aside from the few wealthy people who have homes on top of those mountains (and cry on TV when their homes get enveloped by landslides), most of the development is done on flat land. In order to maximize space on the flat land, homes have to be packed in tighter than what is seen out east (IE dense sprawl). So, I guess you can call it the worst of both worlds: the place sprawls, but doesn't sprawl enough for a lot of people to feel like "they have enough space"
Since there is a shortage of flat land in California that people want to live in, I don't see how it could be the most sprawling state. Hell, I can find this 15 minutes from my house, and I live in LA!
The reason why LA is the largest metro in California is because it has the most direct access to flat land. However, now that the Bay Area is starting to sprawl out into the Central Valley (hundreds of times larger than the San Bernardino, Riverside, and Temecula Valleys), who knows how the future will turn out.
The thing is, there is solid sprawl from Santa Monica Beach to Banning. That is 100 miles of development.
But to write that Sacramento and San Jose have more urban downtown areas than Phoenix, you have got to be kidding.
Downtown Phoenix used to be very dead when I moved there nearly 15 years ago but it has improved significantly. Have you been there lately or are you just going by perception and rumor?
IKR! People need somewhere to stay, and cities are going to grow no matter what. I think they want cities to decline, because if they don't don't grow, they're going to decline. There's no in between!
Whats is you peoples problem with Urban Sprawl? Just curious to why it bothers most of you.
Because you're entirely dependant on the automobile to get from place to place. As we all know, fuel prices are shooting up like crazy, and not everyone can afford hours of commuting a day through huge swaths of traffic just to get to work. There's hundreds of reasons why suburban sprawl is bad.
The thing is, there is solid sprawl from Santa Monica Beach to Banning. That is 100 miles of development.
There's no denying that, nor can I deny that from Santa Clarita to San Clemente, there is also non stop development (100 miles of it). However, the only areas that are fully developed are areas that are flat. Again, the largest area in Coastal California that is flat is the LA Basin, which is why it has so many people.
Hell, even within LA City limits, the Santa Monica mountains have very little development on them. That's geographic reality. After the Inland Empire gets fully developed, the only way for LA to get more population is if it becomes denser.
That was the whole point of my spiel. People wouldn't say that New Jersey has sprawl, even though that the majority of the land area in the state is either NYC suburbs or Philadelphia suburbs. Sure, there are places in SE New Jersey and near the Water gap where there isn't development, but by and large most of the area of the state is built out already.
There's no denying that, nor can I deny that from Santa Clarita to San Clemente, there is also non stop development (100 miles of it). However, the only areas that are fully developed are areas that are flat. Again, the largest area in Coastal California that is flat is the LA Basin, which is why it has so many people.
Hell, even within LA City limits, the Santa Monica mountains have very little development on them. That's geographic reality. After the Inland Empire gets fully developed, the only way for LA to get more population is if it becomes denser.
That was the whole point of my spiel. People wouldn't say that New Jersey has sprawl, even though that the majority of the land area in the state is either NYC suburbs or Philadelphia suburbs. Sure, there are places in SE New Jersey and near the Water gap where there isn't development, but by and large most of the area of the state is built out already.
The only reason mountains are not developed in LA are because of it's too costly and risky to build, or because it is park land. My impression of So-CAL is that they build on what ever hillsides possible.
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